windham monoplane 1909

[YavorD]

Flight, March 27, 1909, page 173

Propellers are for the most part constructed by the manufacturers of the flyers, but Messrs. Ludw. Loewe and Co. have taken up the agency for the wooden Helice Integral, while the Beedle propeller on the International Rotary Motors stand and the much-talked-of Hollands propeller on the N.E.C. stand are also among those which may at present be described as unattached.

Flight, June 12, 1909, page 352

To the Editor of FLIGHT.
SIR,—We are quite willing to take up Mr. W. Cochrane's challenge with reference to propellers in your issue of June 5th, page 338, but we do not quite see how we are to weigh the blades of our propellers without the boss, as they are all in one. We should therefore be glad to hear from your correspondent as to this matter. Also as to the place and date of the test, and who will be the independent person who is deputed to make the test. We may add that we have just received the Gold Medal and Diploma of Honour for the Beedle Propeller in the Paris International Exhibition.
Yours faithfully,
THE WATFORD ENGINEERING WORKS,
Sole Manufacturers and Agents for the Beedle Aeroplane Propellers

Flight, August 21, 1909, page 514

RE PROPELLER TEST.
To the Editor of FLIGHT.
SIR,—I read with some interest your report in FLIGHT of the trial of Mr. Cochrane's propeller against the Beedle propeller. The conclusion that one might arrive at in reading this report must to a great extent be unsatisfactory. It will be observed that per electrical h.p., our propeller was far and away the better of the two, although the weight of the propeller was greater, but surely a few ounces, or lbs., that one propeller may weigh more than another is quite insignificant in comparison with the h.p. required to drive it, and therefore the weight of the motor.
I am glad to say that we have received instructions from M. Bleriot to make a propeller for the aeroplane that he is now constructing, and we think that it will be far better to have a demonstration of a larger diameter propeller, a propeller, in fact, that would be of some use in aviation, rather than to test a series of toys.
Yours faithfully,
HENRY J. ROGERS,
WATFORD ENGINEERING WORKS.

Flight, January 1, 1910, page 16

Beedle Propeller and Aeroplane Co., Ltd., 40, High Street, Watford.—Capital £50,000, in £1 shares. Formed to acquire the interest of W. Beedle and the Beedle Propeller Syndicate in patent rights in connection with propellers for ships, aeroplanes, and dirigible balloons, &c. First directors, A. A. James and H. J. Rogers.

Flight, September 10, 1910, page 733

THE SEDDON AEROPLANE.—A most unusual type of aeroplane has made its appearance at Wolverhampton, and is illustrated above. It consists of a tandem biplane, and has been designed by Lieut. J. W. Seddon and Mr. A G. Hackett. Apart from the tandem biplane principle, which has not yet been given any real practical trial, the Seddon machine is also unique in its system of construction, the bracing of the main planes being effected by an arrangement of crossed hoops instead of by the usual system of struts and ties. The constructive work has been carried out by Messrs. Accles and Pollock, at Oldbury, the two engines, which drive Beedle propellers, being supplied by the New Engine Co. The estimated weight of the machine is about one ton, and its supporting surface about 1,000 sq. ft. Beyond the Seddon machine a monoplane is seen..

Flight, October 4, 1913, page 1101

Aerial Experiments at Watford.
EXPERIMENTAL tests are shortly to be conducted at The Lea Graston, near Watford, the residence of Mr. Wallace Spiers, with a waterplane, invented by Mr. William Beedle, inventor of the Beedle Fan and Propeller, who will be remembered by many as the constructor of a dirigible as far back as 1903. The new machine will be known as the Beedle and Wallace Spiers biplane, and among the advantages claimed for it are stability and safety under any weather conditions.

Makes me wonder how often it is hard to define what is sound approach to the problem and what is a dead-end!
As a side note, 40 years ago we used to run with a paper toy wind-turbines fixed on a stick - extremelly similar to the Beedle patent design.

Regards,
Yavor

[Varese2002]

Hi Yavor, thanks for the searching. I noted that the Beedle propeller received the Gold Medal and Diploma of Honour in the Paris International Exhibition (starting December 24th, 1908). Could not find this information elsewhere.

Judging from this honour the Beedle propeller was held in esteem at its time, which is not remarkable when you read this quote from Flight January 9, 1909:

Very little is known about the aerial propeller at the present day, and it is very evident that a great deal will have to be found out before the utmost capabilities of aerial engines are turned to the best advantage. It is very certain that some of the propellers on view at the Salon will not be considered as high-class examples of design and workmanship in a few years to come, but then it is also just as obvious that very serious efforts are already being made by different firms to cope with the problem in a fashion that is at once scientific and commercial.

Judging the Beedle propeller with todays eyes makes it look decidedly ugly and unscientific, but looking at the honour bestowed on it and the state of the art in 1909 of propeller design gives it a different light.

Notwithstanding I think it is theoretically (and practically) impossible to move enough air, to get a machine with the Beedle propeller into the air.

Cheers

Kees

[Rod_Filan]

An excellent dialogue happening down here---something not often seen in the Pioneer Aviation forum!

Originally Posted by YavorD

As a side note, 40 years ago we used to run with a paper toy wind-turbines fixed on a stick - extremely similar to the Beedle patent design.

Commonly known as a pinwheel

Cheers
Rod

[Varese2002]

Hi Rod, you may have noted that William Beedle designed and built an airship in 1902? In d'Orcy Airships the Beedle airship is referenced on page 149 as follows.

Beedle (W.), London.- Builder of a structure airship
Lenght 30.5 meter Beam 4.9 meter Volume 500 mc Power 28 h.p.
Experimental airship. One automobile engine; twin-screws. (Data and photo wanted.)

That's all, pretty few.

As a bonus here is the Beedle GB patent of 1903 which describes the swivelling of the propeller to steer the airship. Later perfected by E.T.Willows.

Cheers

Kees

[ermeio]

ritaglio windham monoplanecard.jpg

hi, all

this thread is going to be much more interesting than prevented, even from me.
Now I'm going to pose another question about Windham's tandem wing monoplane control: The patent states that the keel gives stability and that it's also used as a control mean: was this accomplished using the keel like a sail?
maybe that the bamboo fuselage was made so to flex, pivoting the propeller by some degree to make the aircraft turn on the left or on the right? Or there was some mean to use the vertical surfaces as a rudder?
And horizontal control?

Another rudder-like item is the radiator (the dish-like object, mounted vertically towards the nose and sharing the same plan of fuselage)
The control of the aircraft will affect the rigging and the bracing.
Best regards
Ermeio

[ermeio]

and another surprise:
this is Cooley, handling something interesting:

cooley e windham.jpg

the photo is dated around 1911, and his tandem wing monoplane looks like a refined and streamlined copy of the windham tandem monoplane:

cooley senza ali.jpg

Though Cooley had a patent for a tandem wing kite dated 1898, that looked more like the Langley aerodrome than like the Windham's

Interesting...
Ermeio

[YavorD]

Originally Posted by Rod_Filan

...
Commonly known as a pinwheel
...

Thanks, Rod! It is still common sight on country fairgrounds.
Yavor

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by ermeio

and another surprise:
this is Cooley, handling something interesting:

Attachment 10007

the photo is dated around 1911, and his tandem wing monoplane looks like a refined and streamlined copy of the windham tandem monoplane:

---

Hi Ermeio,

This picture (now in the LC collection) shows a pipe-smoking (?) John F Cooley with in his hands an early model of his big plane standing behind him (not a propeller). The two propellers that were fitted on the real plane look quite 'normal'. Extraordinary that Cooley thought in 1910/1911 that this machine could fly at all A real flight of fancy though and a true eccentric this John F. Cooley.

Cheers

Kees

[Rod_Filan]

Originally Posted by ermeio

and another surprise:
this is Cooley, handling something interesting:
[...]
Interesting...
Ermeio

I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume the Cooley monoplane was influenced by the Windham tandem---but who knows---there are stranger things in heaven and on earth. However, few are as strange as the Cooley...

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/...lane.1.jpl.jpg

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/...lane.2.jpl.jpg
--

BTW Kees, I have more info on the South African ex-patriot Beedle and his airship. I'll definately post that tonight---seems with all the twists and turns on this thread (pun intended)---I'm always playing catch-up with you guys.

Cheers
Rod

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by ermeio

Attachment 10006

hi, all

this thread is going to be much more interesting than prevented, even from me.
Now I'm going to pose another question about Windham's tandem wing monoplane control: The patent states that the keel gives stability and that it's also used as a control mean: was this accomplished using the keel like a sail?
maybe that the bamboo fuselage was made so to flex, pivoting the propeller by some degree to make the aircraft turn on the left or on the right? Or there was some mean to use the vertical surfaces as a rudder?
And horizontal control?

Another rudder-like item is the radiator (the dish-like object, mounted vertically towards the nose and sharing the same plan of fuselage)
The control of the aircraft will affect the rigging and the bracing.
Best regards
Ermeio

Hi Ermeio. Some of your answers may be in a lengthy article written by W.G.Windham titled Balloons and Aeroplanes of 13 pages. The article is published in the Trans. Civ. Mech. Eng. Soc., 50th Session, 1908-1909, London. [probably the Transactions of the Civil Mechanical Engineering Society]. Will see if I can get this article somewhere.

** Rod ** Don't worry, I am back on the Windham course ** But it is now too late, will do more research tomorrow

Cheers

Kees