Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge # 012

[Varese2002]

Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge # 012

Only the correct identification with the correct name (or names) will earn a full point (you are being warned ). There is more to be earned when you present the interesting story / stories or technical peculiarities of this machine.

Have a good look at your



The score at the end of start of #012 is:

3.50 Varese2002
2.00 Airarticles
1.70 RBailey
1.00 Cruze
1.00 joegertler
1.00 matte_kudasai
1.00 paolomiana
0.50 Rod_Filan
0.30 aerohydro

The rules:

•The thread title must be "Bréguet's pre-1914 ID challenge #......"
•The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning and end of each thread so that we know where we are.
•The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....)
•There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built
•Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
•The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion)
•Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
•If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
•Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
•To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
•The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
•If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
•The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[richard B]

Seems to be the Danton racing plane wich flew the european circuit in 1911.
Designer and pilot was the later well known Denhaut.

[Rbailey]

Denhaut designed it in 1910, Espinosa built it, Danton paid for it, Victor Fumat bought it. Engine was a 6 cylinder 50 hp fan Lemasson, whatever that was. Two others (similar, lower powered engines) were contracted for, but apparently not finished. All according to Opdyke. Since Denhaut didn't get his pilot's licence until 1911, it is not clear that he flew it.

Correction - Denhaut is listed in flying a Danton in the 1911 European circuit.

[Rbailey]

Another picture of it.

Avions n° 147 has an article on it - I have not seen it.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

---

Correction - Denhaut is listed in flying a Danton in the 1911 European circuit.

Contestant n° 29 was Denhaut who was named as the pilot for this machine. He did not get very far as he did not make the first stage to Liege (Luik) and in the worst case did not leave at all.

Unfortunately I cannot give any winners / points till now, because a certain Breguet rule has obviously not been followed.

Cheers

Kees

[richard B]

Oh ,yes ,indeed : The clue is so obvious that I forgot to tell it :

The very little gap between the wings and the long fuselage is tipycal,so far I can remember I never saw that on other planes .

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by richard B

Oh ,yes ,indeed : The clue is so obvious that I forgot to tell it :

The very little gap between the wings and the long fuselage is tipycal,so far I can remember I never saw that on other planes .

The distinguishing features are in two items:

• the negative stagger on this biplane, making it one of the earliest known examples of this phenomenon

• the design of the fuselage as a canoe, making it possible to alight on the water in emergency (that is engine failure over water......)

The naming of the machine



I had retouched the Challenge picture, this is the unretouched version of this picture. On the fuselage is very prominent Le "Danton" and on the rudder can be read F. Danton Constructeur.

Contemporary magazines in their reports on the European circuit (Flight, Flugsport) name the machine as the Danton biplane. Sure it might be designed and built by François Denhaut but this was subordinate to Frédéric Danton.

The machine was in first instance built for a prize flight from Nice to Corsica in 1911, hence the emergency 'canoe'. The canoe aspect was even patented in French Brevet 420.521 'Aéroplan biplan à fuselage en forme de canot' obtained by Frédéric Danton. After all this effort it is sad that the machine never started on its flight to Corsica.

The protagonists:

François Denhaut, later chief designer with Donnet-Lévêque and after the split of that firm (1913), designer with Morane-Saulnier (1913) and Borel (1913) and Goupy (1914). Formed together with Donnet the firm Donnet-Denhaut (1914). Realise that in 1911 Denhaut was an unknown designer being financed (that's paid) by Frédéric Danton.

Frédéric Danton
Danton was a rich rug manufacturer in Aubusson (France) with probably a huge interest in aviation. He financed the machine and made it happen, as he gave Denhaut the means to design and construct the plane.

Victor Furnat
French early pilot (Veille Tige) AéCF N° 1590 (February 6, 1914) who bought the one and only built Danton biplane (the construction of two extra machines was started, but not finished)

Louis Espinosa
One of the collaborators of Clément Ader, giving a statement about the flight of the Avion III

The machine
The machine had a considerable long life for the times (1911-1914 as known) and was constantly modified. Also the engine changed from initially a 6-cylinder Lemasson engine (50 hp) to a 50 hp REP engine. At some time the machine was fitted with a large extra elevator, which suspects there were stability problems. All in all at least 8 pictures of the machine can be identified.

Conclusion.

Contrary to most contemporary writers I would name this machine the Danton Biplane (designed by Denhaut), which gives due credit to Danton as the one who did it happen. Also contemporary magazines named it the Danton Biplane (Biplan Danton).

For comparison it is Airco D.H.4 (designed by De Havilland), whch was for years recently named as a De Havilland D.H.4.

Or ....

BAT FK.23 and not Koolhoven FK.23

I rest my case.

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

I split the point between Richard B and RBailey, where Richard B has the right the enter a new Challenge.

The score at the end of end of #012 is:

3.50 Varese2002
2.20 RBailey
2.00 Airarticles
1.00 Cruze
1.00 joegertler
1.00 matte_kudasai
1.00 paolomiana
0.50 Richard B
0.50 Rod_Filan
0.30 aerohydro

[Varese2002]

There is a (French language) article on Eugène Marie Pierre Frédéric DANTON (1874-1929) here.

Interesting is the following quote

Appareil qui sera nommée tout naturellement "Le Danton"......

The pictures of the Danton Biplan shows a version of the one and only completely built machine with an extra elevator. As already told number 2 and 3 of the Danton were only partly finished and then left alone.

Cheers

Kees

[Frédéric]

I'm looking for some information on François DENHAUT and more specifically on its planes.
I'm the guy who wrote the article on DANTON as Varese2002 refer to.

3 DANTON have been built, 1 bought by FUMAT, 1 broken in a crash (I presume), because Denhaut was fired by Danton after this crash, and nothing regarding the third. Danton set up for a few moment a Pilot School in Port-Aviation, and one of the student-pilot get a problem with the plane, so may be the third, and may be this last was destroyed.
Do you get some precisions on the plane and specifically on its measures and technical elements??
And, if possible could you provide me with the picture of the plane in hig defintion, I have'nt seen this photo before.
All other information on DENHAUT are more than welcome.

I remain at your disposal if any question and thnaks for your attention