Breguet pre 1914 ID challenge 013

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by richard B

Very interesting

For Bruno Lange ,Steffen designed before the War :

1) Falke I ,Tauben Kopie ,single seat,1911,70hp Argus

2) Eindecker,for Heine ,1911,immediately destroyed,50hp Argus

3) Falke II ,two seats,1912,100hp Argus

4) Schwingenflieger for Werner ,unsuccessful

Our single seat can only be either No 1 or No 2 ,probably No 1 (Taube ) ,the No 2 being for Lange a Monoplane ,not a Taube .

More, my source says :

"DER EINSITZIGE STEFFEN-FALKE 1911"

Cheers

Richard

The Steffen brothers - Bruno and Franz - started their aviation activities in 1909 in Kronhagen near Kiel. They built a small dirgible ('Luftschiff'). In 1911 they started their series of Falke monoplanes.

Several Falke machines are identified, where it may be obvious that the Roman numerals are probably years later added to distinguish the different models somewhat. As there was continuous development of machines it may be even more difficult to pinpoint which models were built (sometimes in different version?).

The deeds of the Steffen brothers or there machines were little publicized in the German contemporary aviation journals. so Flugsport gives no coverage of the Falke machines and very little on the Steffen brothers [will give this information later]

Falke -I- Powered with a 70 hp Argus engine. The machine was a Taube copy. Picture of this machines shows in large letters - Steffen Falke. Clearly can be seen on the picture that the machine is a two-seater. Machine looks very conventional, unlike the Challenge machine. Bruno Steffen obtained his pilot license (Pilotenprüfung) on this machine.

Falke -II- Powered with a 50 hp Argus engne. Built in 1912. A two-seat trainer. Machine is not the Challenge type.

Source: Lange. Typenhandbuch der deutschen Luftfahrttechnik. 1986 (updated version from 1970)

Devries [Taube, Dove of War] gives three different Falkes (I, II and III). The machine he identifies as the Steffen Falke - III is identified by Lange as the Steffen Falke - I

But to his credit he produces two other pictures of Steffen Falke - all for all the world looking very much like Taube machines with a conventional engine with side exhausts.

So all the three pictures presented by deVries are unlike the Challenge machine.

"DER EINSITZIGE STEFFEN-FALKE 1911" as captioned by Lange (probably) can be referenced as the 1911 Eindecker powered by a 50 hp Argus engine, built for Heine, which crashed on its first flight.

There is in reality not much evidence that the Challenge machine is this one. Although the Steffen brothers were at the start of their brilliant career, I find it difficult to realize that they started with a conventional Taube-copy and after that designed and built this Taube-like machine.

What is against it is that the Steffen brothers - as good engineers - started with a Taube-copy (the Falke - I), which they developed step-for-step as engineers have their way of doing. This Challenge machine looks like another development line, especially the form of the outrageous tail

My conclusion is that on the basis of the available data it cannot be discerned that this is a machine designed and built by the Steffen brothers. At the moment it is IMO inconclusive.

It would be nice to see contemporary evidence for this machine (but you will not find it in the issues of Flugsport).

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

I searched through the pre-1914 issues of Flugsport but found surprisingly little about Steffen and nill about the Falke machines. Surely these machines never participated in the contests of the time.

* The Steffen brothers - Bruno and Franz

Bruno Steffen - Licence 308 - October 9th, 1912

Hans Steffen - Licence 387 - April 26, 1913 [Oberleutnant]

Franz Steffen - Licence 596 - November 15, 1913 [Engineer]

Erich Steffen - Licence 650 - January 30, 1914

- Hans and Erich were probably not family.

References to Steffen in Flugsport only relate to Oberleutnant Steffen, who participated in contests, flying other machines than the Falke of the Steffen brothers.

So the unmistakable brilliance of the Steffen engineers was not observed in the contemporary aviation press. The Falke machines were obviously not very brilliant new machines.

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

I suspect that as this challenge goes forward there will be other cases where identities are ambiguous or contradictory. In this particular case, it appears that the machine is not one of the "known" Steffens, and its identification as a Steffen depends on a single source of uncertain reliability. I agree with Kees that the tail seems out of character, although it could have been a test of a concept of some sort. It does bear the flavor of an amateur designer, so perhaps it was something the Steffens built to a customer's specifications. Could this have been the case for the Heine? There may not be enough remaining information to ever sort things out, but the Steffen taubes seem to be an historically interesting set of machines.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

I suspect that as this challenge goes forward there will be other cases where identities are ambiguous or contradictory. In this particular case, it appears that the machine is not one of the "known" Steffens, and its identification as a Steffen depends on a single source of uncertain reliability. I agree with Kees that the tail seems out of character, although it could have been a test of a concept of some sort. It does bear the flavor of an amateur designer, so perhaps it was something the Steffens built to a customer's specifications. Could this have been the case for the Heine? There may not be enough remaining information to ever sort things out, but the Steffen taubes seem to be an historically interesting set of machines.

Sure, it would be nice to know what is meant with Heine (another aviator, a rich customer ..... surely not Heinrich Heine ).

Although the machines designed by the Steffen brothers are interesting they surely have not made any dent in the history of flying. The machines are not remarkable. Compare this with the brilliant 1912 Heinkel designed Albatros Eindecker racer.

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

To add some flesh for all interested, here are pictures of the types (or versions) of the Steffen "Falke".



Picture from deVries described as a "Falke"-I



Picture from deVries described as a "Falke"-II



This picture is in deVries and in Lange.
For Lange this is the Steffen "Falke" - I
For deVries this is the Steffen "Falke" - III



The enigma machine

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

Kees - not particularly interesting as machines per se, but interesting in the early development of the Steffens works.

[Rod_Filan]

The Steffen airship was indeed small, just 500 m3, although you wouldn't think that from FLIGHT of April 23, 1910.

Prince Henry in " Kiel I."
THE dirigible, " Kiel I," built by Herr Steffen, made its third
trial trip on the 13th inst., when Prince Henry of Prussia was
among the passengers.

No mention of brothers here, nur ein Herr. Nor in D'Orcy's Airship Manual, p.125 (only Franz)

-
Cheers
Rod

[Varese2002]

Hi Rod an interesting reference. It is reasonable to conclude that the Steffen brothers had some relations in high places as Prinz Heinrich von Preussen (1862-1929) - the brother of the Kaiser - was involved with their dirigible.

Surely the contemporary press of 1910 must have made a mention about this flight. Will do a search today.

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

There is some 'noise' (uncertainty ) on the early history of the Steffen brothers.

In references they are frequently exchanged for Oberleutnant Hans Steffen who did contest flights etc. but was no relation of Bruno and Franz Steffen. This blurs the picture.

New found references like:

Biographisches Lexikon für Schleswig-Holstein und Lübeck Volume 12. 2006. Neumünster: Wachholtz.

have a biography of the Steffens which at least contains the following sentence (Google books)

Mit dem von ihnen entwickelten Eindecker „Steffen-Falke I" nahm St(effen) von 1911 bis zum Beginn des Ersten Weltkrieges spektakulär an zahlreichen....

With the Steffen-Falke I monoplane Steffen spectacularly participated from 1911 till the beginning of the Great War in numerous contests (my aufmentation.

This cannot be as the Steffens are mentioned nowhere in the contemporary aviation press (Flugsport).

Would be interesting though if someone could search up the complete reference (biography) to th Steffens in this volume 12.

Cheers

Kees

[richard B]

Thanks for your explanations
The 'Falke I " in Lange is certainly its own mistake as he says in the text the "I " is a single seat
We must read "Falke II " (DeVries Falke III)

Varese says :

" ""DER EINSITZIGE STEFFEN-FALKE 1911" as captioned by LANGE (probably) can be referenced as the 1911 Eindecker powered by a 50 hp Argus engine, built for Heine, which crashed on its first flight. """


The above caption was the caption of the challenge picture in my unknown source,not in Lange's book .

In this case ,I have been unreliable (I forgot to take the source with the picture) ,but we can't judge about the reliability of the SOURCE which,after all , is very precise -EINSITZIGE STEFFEN-FALKE 1911- and match perfectly with the info given by Lange :

---Single seat Zanonia wing Only short flights---

I still believe that it is the first not very successful aircraft designed by Steffen.

Then he moved to Neumünster where he designed the Taube-like two seaters .

Cheers
Richard