Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #59

[joegertler]

Thank you Bruno;
I wanted to get this one posted in time for our European friends to play, before it got too late.
This is a published photo of an interesting aircraft. The usual rules apply, as stated below..

Scoreboard at the end of Challenge #058 - Fernandez Aeral-1909
12.20 Rbailey
8.00 Varese2002
6.00 Cruze
5.70 aerohydro
5.30 matte_kudasai
5.20 Aquilius ===> have to wait 12 hours

4.90 Airarticles =====> may start immediately
4.20 richard B
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Flamingo
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 YavorD
0.60 Froggy
0.50 Rod_Filan
0.40 Wind In The Wires
Previous Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge
Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

The rules

1. The thread title must be "Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......"
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....)
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion)
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet

[joegertler]

As it is nearly 24 hours without a guess or identification, I think it is time for some more information to narrow it down. It is NOT British or U.S. The publication that printed this photo was a magazine, not a book.

[Varese2002]

This is the Amphibien-Flugboot designed and built by Fritz Grawert in 1910. The engine - a design of Grawert - drove two propellers (pusher and tractor) and the wings could be attached to the boat fuselage. Wings were made of aluminium with silk covering.

The machine rolled (without the wings and the fuselage, only the tube construction in the middle with the engine and the propellers) under its own power through Berlin (a picture still exists of that happening !) to its starting point Tempelhof. It did not fly there, but later at Grünau it was able to fly.

Grawert died in 1916. He had a patent in 1910 for his special three-chamber engine.

A beauty of a picture.

Cheers

Kees

[joegertler]

Yes you have another one, Kees

Scoreboard at the end of Challenge #059 - Grawert Flugmaschine-1910/11
12.20 Rbailey
9.00 Varese2002
6.00 Cruze
5.70 aerohydro
5.30 matte_kudasai
5.20 Aquilius ===> have to wait 12 hours

4.90 Airarticles =====> may start immediately
4.20 richard B
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Flamingo
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 YavorD
0.60 Froggy
0.50 Rod_Filan
0.40 Wind In The Wires

I am sorry that it took so long for me to reply and confirm this, but I could not get theaerdrome web pages to load, all this afternoon, while other websites worked just fine???
In any event here is another, more clear, photo of some of the features of the Grawert Flugmaschine, as it is described with both of these photos on page 43, in the Flugtechnische Zeitschrift section of the second issue of "Der Motorwagen," for Jan 1911. There is less interference with background clutter in this photo.

[Varese2002]

The Grawert machine with some extra information on Grawert was already covered a little bit in the Forum Aerodrome here. Also the unique picture of (part of) the Grawert machine on the road in Berlin in 1910 (no more traffic to be seen then) can be seen.

The extra picture presented by Joe is also published somewhere in WW1 Aero by Peter M. Grosz with an extra picture, probably both from the German magazine Der Motorwagen. Strangely enough nothing at all seems to have been published in Flugsport.

There are two short statements about Grawert in Flight 1910. So this interesting machine has been very little covered in the press.

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

Although the German press AFAIK reported very little on the Grawert Amphibie-Flugboot, there was a mention in the NY Times - June 5, 1910. The NYT reported it as a flying auto-machine! Unfortunately the scan of the picture is very poor, but somewhere in an archive my linger an original picture print.



Cheers

Kees