Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #061

[Aquilius]

Welcome to Breguet's pre-1914 ID Challenge #061!

I wasn't allowed to log in yesterday eavening but now here is the new challenge.
It's something I recently stumbled over.
Looking familiar doesn't it?


Half a point for the model and half a point for the manufacturer.


The scoreboard is:

12.20 Rbailey
9.00 Varese2002
6.20 Aquilius
6.00 Cruze
5.70 aerohydro
5.30 matte_kudasai ==> have to wait 12 hours

4.90 Airarticles =====> may start immediately
4.20 richard B
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Flamingo
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 YavorD
0.60 Froggy
0.50 Rod_Filan
0.40 Wind In The Wires

Previous challenges are to find here: Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

The rules

1. The thread title must be "Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......"
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....)
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion)
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet

Good luck!

Aquilius

[richard B]

Bonjour /bonsoir à tous

It's the D.F.W Stahl-Taube Militär-Typ 1913/14
One more Taube ,the undercarriage is my main clue ,and rudder too

Cheers
Richard

[Aquilius]

Do you know something of the origins of that design?

- as the undercarriage is your main clue...



Cheers

Aquilius

[richard B]

Hello



So far I know ,the DFW Stahltaube is a licence built Jeannin Stahltaube (1913).

Btw,the National Flugzeugwerke (Leipzig ) bought the Jeannin Flugzeugbau (Johannistahl ) in 1915, before itself merged with DFW (Leipzig) :the ring was closed .

Cheers

Richard

[Aquilius]

Now you earned the full score!

All the features you stated are typical for the Jeannin models (and I expected this as an answer first).

Differences I coud make out from the pictures I have are the side-radiators beneath the wings by DFW - opposed to the Windhoff "Stirnkühler" (top-radiator) and a slightly modified engine covering.

But in all this is still a Jeannin Stahltaube 1913 with short skid and wing supporting "bridge".

The DFW bought the licence of it at the end of 1913 and sold it as DFW Stahltaube.
According to the book of M.Krzyzan & H.Steinle of the Jeannin Stahltaube the DFW got an order for 18 copies but delivered only 2.


Finally I was looking for DFW Stahltaube - licence built version of the Jeannin Stahltaube 1913

(Rod has listed this one in his Early Aviation Image Archive as "Taube" only - you may change the caption)

The scoreboard after challenge #061 is:

12.20 Rbailey
9.00 Varese2002
6.20 Aquilius
6.00 Cruze
5.70 aerohydro
5.30 matte_kudasai
5.20 richard B ===> have to wait 12 hours

4.90 Airarticles =====> may start immediately
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Flamingo
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 YavorD
0.60 Froggy
0.50 Rod_Filan
0.40 Wind In The Wires


Richard, welcome to the royals.
The next round is yours!

Cheers

Aquilius

[Rod_Filan]

Originally Posted by Aquilius

(Rod has listed this one in his Early Aviation Image Archive as "Taube" only - you may change the caption)

Yes, I recognized this Stahltaube and quickly looked to see what I had it ID'd as. Obviously, discretion kept me from guessing beyond "Taube", fully expecting to narrow down the type and manufacturer at a later time. Nevertheless, I've made a note to not to forget to edit the list's given information, and thanks for bringing this rare a/c to the pre-'14 challenge.
-
Cheers!

[Aquilius]

Rod, I thought about to send you a note when I found it on your site.

I had it ID'd as Jeannin Stahltaube 1913 but then found the same picture in "Taschenbuch der Luftflotten 1914" captured DFW Stahltaube just a few days ago. I remebered that Jeannin had sold the licence to DFW and now got the chance to offer it in the challenges.

Does anyone know if there are other pictures around or what serial it got?
The type should have been in service as a trainer until 1915.


Cheers

Aquilius

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Aquilius

---

Does anyone know if there are other pictures around or what serial it got?
The type should have been in service as a trainer until 1915.
---

At least two shots were made of this D.F.W.-Stahltaube (Stahl-Taube ?), this one is from the rear. Surely this are factory shots of D.F.W. documenting the machine. There is no registration to be seen.



Cheers

Kees

Extra: Beware of the points between D.F.W., not DFW. It is an abbreviation of Deutsche Flugzeugwerke =

[Aquilius]

Kees, thanks a lot for the additional picture.

It seems many of the photographers that time moved the aircrafts to get the best contrast on their b/w photos, using the light and the scenery around.


And to the abreviations – for a correct writing you can always count on me.
(What not means I’m doing everything right, but I’m trying )

I could write a long article but I don’t want to.
For short: This time there were no rules that are today; you write with dots if you want the whole words to be read and without if the abreviation should be to read.

I don’t think you loose historical corectness if you use the common forms of abreviations without dots if you not quote from contemporary sources that use this form.
Otherwise it depends on what you prefer as there are different forms around for all the companies AEG, BFW, LFG, MLG, NFW and so on. Same for “GmbH” or “AG”.
I’m going to keep one style.


Cheers

Aquilius