Breguet's pre-1914 ID challenge #074

[Flamingo]

This beautiful aeroplane is our next challenge






The scoreboard after challenge #073 - Ziegler Pfeil-Eindecker - is:

14.20 Rbailey
10.90 Varese2002
7.20 Aquilius
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
5.70 aerohydro
5.50 Airarticles
5.30 matte_kudasai===> have to wait 12 hours

4.00 Flamingo =====> may start immediately
2.00 joegertler
1.50 Rod_Filan
1.00 Doc
1.00 Lodzermensch
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 YavorD
0.60 Froggy
0.40 Wind In The Wires


Previous Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

The rules:

1.The thread title must be "Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......"
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....)
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion)
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet

[berman]

This is the Siemens Schuckert Werkes biplane designed by Bourcart. Combination steel tubing and wood construction powered by a 50hp Argus engine. Chain drive to the two propellers. First flew on December 31, 1909.
I will let someone else post the next challenge. Does a forum member have a WWI Aero magazine P3V ( photo to three view software program) and know how to use it? It would be great to see drawings of these flying machines.

[Flamingo]

Well, beautiful but not difficult...

Congratulation berman!
Does your statement about the next challenge also apply to the crash challenge?

I will PM Breguet to post a new challenge.

The scoreboard after challenge #074- Siemens Bourcart Biplane - is:

14.20 Rbailey
10.90 Varese2002
7.20 Aquilius
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
5.70 aerohydro
5.50 Airarticles
5.30 matte_kudasai===> have to wait 12 hours

4.00 Flamingo =====> may start immediately
2.00 joegertler
1.50 Rod_Filan
1.00 Doc
1.00 Lodzermensch
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 YavorD
1.00 berman
0.60 Froggy
0.40 Wind In The Wires

The last time I heard about that program they were looking for someone to re-write it for Windows!

[berman]

Sorry, but I do not have a means of submitting photos. There are two more photos, of the SSW Bourcart, in US Cross and Cockade volume 13, number 3 Autumn 1972.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by berman

This is the Siemens Schuckert Werkes biplane designed by Bourcart. Combination steel tubing and wood construction powered by a 50hp Argus engine. Chain drive to the two propellers. First flew on December 31, 1909.
I will let someone else post the next challenge. Does a forum member have a WWI Aero magazine P3V ( photo to three view software program) and know how to use it? It would be great to see drawings of these flying machines.

On this side view can be seen that the two propellers are placed close together so that they overlap. It is remarkable that Max Bourcart patented such a construction on September 9, 1902 in German. [German Patent 145547 - Flugmaschine mit zwei Luftschrauben, deren Flügel ineinandergreifen].

By the way Lange (Typenhandbuch der deutschen Luftfahrttechnik) gives the first flight of this machine as March 1910. Pilot was the designer Bourcart himself

About the P3V program, I think that development was stopped years ago. It will not work in todays operating systems (Windows, Mac etc.).

I will seek out the pictures of the machine in Cross and Cockade US.

Cheers

Kees

[Aquilius]

Originally Posted by Varese2002

I will seek out the pictures of the machine in Cross and Cockade US.

Kees

That would be great!
Is there a mention how well it flew?


Cheers

Aquilius

[berman]

P3V uses MS-DOS operating system. I think even modern systems can revert to that but I could be wrong as I am certainly no computer expert. Maybe some whiz out there is capable of converting it to Windows. That was the plea from Leonard Opdycke for many years.

[berman]

Windows 98 provides the option to start in MS-DOS mode.

[richard B]

Bonjour/bonsoir à tous

For Flugsport No 6/1910 ,first flight on 9 march 1910 piloted by Bourcart .(1000m straighr line flight) and second and last flight on 11 march ,piloted by Bourcart ,with two passengers, ended by a crash landing.
It was a ...5 " seater " with a 50 hp Argus !

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by berman

P3V uses MS-DOS operating system. I think even modern systems can revert to that but I could be wrong as I am certainly no computer expert. Maybe some whiz out there is capable of converting it to Windows. That was the plea from Leonard Opdycke for many years.

I do not want to go any depth in the P3V program, consider it as non-existant / non-useable at the time. For enthusiasts who can take the challenge, I remember a description of the functionality of the program by the designer (I remember faintly that the designer was a Technical University Delft member).

Cheers

Kees