Breguet's pre-1914 ID Challenge #088

[Aquilius]

Welcome to Breguet's pre-1914 ID challenge #088!

Here is the new object.
I want to know who built it in which matter and also who flew this machine.

Scoreboard at end of Breguet's Pre-14 ID Challenge #087

15.90 Rbailey
11.90 Varese2002
8.20 Aquilius
6.70 aerohydro
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
5.50 Airarticles
5.30 matte_kudasai ===> have to wait 12 hours
4.00 Flamingo =====> may start immediately
3.30 Rod_Filan
3.00 YavorD
2.00 berman
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Lodzermensch
1.10 Froggy
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 sobrien
0.40 Wind In The Wires

List of previous challenges: Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

Rules of engagement:

The thread title must be "Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

Good luck

Aquilius

[YavorD]

My source tells about Igo Etrich Taube built in France with a Clerget (inline) engine by Autodidakt Gustave Aman. Flown in October 1910. There are subtle differences in undercarriage and wing construction. Reportedly, the wing was moved aft from its original position. "AMAN" was written on the fin.

Igo Etrich. Die Etrich-Taube - der erste Flugzeug-Bestseller der Welt by Hanuš Salz
GeraNova Zeitschriftenverlag (2000), Gebundene Ausgabe, 152 pages

Regards,
Yavor

[Aquilius]

Yavor, you are right!

The tailplane bears the name "G. AMAN" though it looks like a "C" on the photo.

I won't be so nitpicking here. You named the only source I know about and all names that were connected to this machine.

Only this "Taube" was not built by Gustave Aman but by Clerget. It was one of two or maybe three licence models that were built by Clerget in France, of course with a Clerget engine. This licence agreement was signed in return for the chief agency that Etrich took over for Clerget engines in Austria. But the two known licence copies were ordered by two persons beforehand. One was René Marquézy, the other Guastave Aman and both had contracts with Etrich that they had to share competition prizes with him.

The Aman machine was a little modified version of the Etrich IV Taube.
It was a single seater with little backward placed wings without bridge and strengthened fuselage. It was completed in August but first flown in Oktober 1910.

Full score and next challenge to Yavor!

The scoreboard after challenge #088
– Clerget-Etrich Taube (single seater “Aman”) – is:

15.90 Rbailey
11.90 Varese2002
8.20 Aquilius
6.70 aerohydro
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
5.50 Airarticles
5.30 matte_kudasai ===> have to wait 12 hours
4.00 Flamingo =====> may start immediately
4.00 YavorD
3.30 Rod_Filan
2.00 berman
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Lodzermensch
1.10 Froggy
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 sobrien
0.40 Wind In The Wires


Cheers

Aquilius

[YavorD]

Thank you, Aquilius!
I messed up being in a hurry for a birthday party. Obviously my Deutsch is not good enough for such exercises!
Regards,
Yavor

[Aquilius]

No worries Yavor. Nobody can be perfect.

We are glad to have you around for the cyrillic languages.





Aquilius

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Aquilius

--

The tailplane bears the name "G. AMAN" though it looks like a "C" on the photo.

I won't be so nitpicking here. You named the only source I know about and all names that were connected to this machine.

Only this "Taube" was not built by Gustave Aman but by Clerget. It was one of two or maybe three licence models that were built by Clerget in France, of course with a Clerget engine. This licence agreement was signed in return for the chief agency that Etrich took over for Clerget engines in Austria. But the two known licence copies were ordered by two persons beforehand. One was René Marquézy, the other Gustave Aman and both had contracts with Etrich that they had to share competition prizes with him.

The Aman machine was a little modified version of the Etrich IV Taube.
It was a single seater with little backward placed wings without bridge and strengthened fuselage. It was completed in August but first flown in Oktober 1910.

--

Just a few conflicting points about the Etrich-Aman Taube monoplane.

Opdycke in French aeroplanes before the great war presents another picture of the 1910 Aman-Etrich single seater. (p.116). Unfortunately a very black print, which does not show the interesting wing tip construction.

Opdycke has decided for C. Aman, looking at the two pictures it looks very much like a C. As Aman had no French brevet civil I cannot verify his first name.

The Etrich story in France is somewhat different from the one presented by Hanuš Salz.

Unaltered text of Opdycke

3 Etrich Taubes were copied in France. The first was constructed in 1910 by C. Aman, whose name appeared on the tail. The second was a two-seater built by Kerchone and Aman, also in 1910; an all-metal variant was built by Louis Clément in July 1911, powered by a 55 hp Aviatik.
The third appeared under the name of Allard, a Belgian, and Carbonnier. It was painted with the name Le Vautour, and was distinguished from the first two by the small wheels at the end of each wingskid. Aman flew in Wiener-Neustadt with another German pilot, Illner.

From the text I have the idea that 4 Etrich Taubes were built in France. Salz gives a picture of the Etrich-Taube Vautour, which fits with the description of Opdycke.

There is no mention whatsover about Clerget, who according to Salz licence built 3 machines in France in 1910. Clerget had little success with aircraft design and after two monoplanes concentrated completely on his engine designs. Interesting is to note that the first Clerget monoplane was constructed for Marquézy in 1909, who stalled the machine in November 1909 almost immediately. Interestingly Salz gives in his account that Clerget built in 1910 an Etrich Taube specially for René Marquézy.

The accounts really differ, at least it would be fine to verify the first name of Aman. As he flew in Wiener Neustadt with Illner there might be some hope to verify his name in the contemporary magazines.

Cheers

Kees