Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #89

[YavorD]

Two cadres from a motion picture for your consideration.
Good hunting!
Yavor

The scoreboard after challenge #088
– Clerget-Etrich Taube (single seater “Aman”) – is:

15.90 Rbailey
11.90 Varese2002
8.20 Aquilius
6.70 aerohydro
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
5.50 Airarticles
5.30 matte_kudasai ===> have to wait 12 hours
4.00 Flamingo =====> may start immediately
4.00 YavorD
3.30 Rod_Filan
2.00 berman
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Lodzermensch
1.10 Froggy
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 sobrien
0.40 Wind In The Wires

List of previous challenges: Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge™

[YavorD]

30 visitors and no customers for 24+ hours :{

[Varese2002]

Very characteristic of this monoplane is the mounting of the elevator on the fuselage, very low aand connected via two rods. I could not place this one in the Russian type camp of planes, so my idea is this is a French monoplane demonstrating in Russia (St. Petersburg - Gatchina ?) somewhere between 1910 - 1914. Will try to search up some candidates

Cheers

Kees

[matte_kudasai]

Looks like Roger Sommer's Type E or F monoplane, which was built in late 1911-1912. In 1912 all interests was sold to Leon Bathiat who was selling that monoplanes under the name Bathiat-Sanchez. Airplane in quest is very similar to Bathiat-Sanches Type E, shown on Paris Aero Salon of 1913, except wing-cutouts (that cutouts was made on military variants of Sommers also, but I don't know is there was Bathiat-Sancheses without cutouts).

Unfortunately I have no detailed enough photos to find out deifferences between mentioned airplanes.

[YavorD]

Well, as Froggy mentioned elsewhere there is not much enthusiasm on this particular track either.

There is not much I know about this aeroplane. About ten seconds take-off routine was shown in a Russian TV documentary "Крылья России" (Russian Wings). There is no front view. Speech behind the screen is not related to this particular subject. The same movie contains material which obviously was captured in France and Germany. It is a pity I do not know the source, because this particular aeroplane was not mentioned as flying in Russia.
True identity of the machine is another problem. As matte_kudasai noted, and I am going to agree, the machine is pretty much a Roger Sommer monoplane (fabric covered fuselage version) designed by l’ingénieur Tonnet and flown circa 1911/1912 (Les aéroplanes Sommer by Gérard Hartmann). Léon Bathiat flew many variants of this fast monoplane in several competitions during 1910 and 1911. Leonard Opdycke (French Aeroplanes before the Great War) describes numerous variants of the Sommer Type E (or F) and Bathiat-Sanchez Type E. The aeroplane of the pictures is very similar to the Centre Sommer aeroplane "CS 20" from the well known photo (Opdycke, page 245).

The scoreboard after challenge # 89

– Roger Sommer Type E (designed by Tonnet circa 1912) –

15.90 Rbailey
11.90 Varese2002
8.20 Aquilius
6.70 aerohydro
6.70 richard B
6.30 matte_kudasai
6.00 Cruze
5.50 Airarticles ===> have to wait 12 hours
4.00 Flamingo ====> may start immediately
4.00 YavorD
3.30 Rod_Filan
2.00 berman
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Lodzermensch
1.10 Froggy
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 sobrien
0.40 Wind In The Wires

Helm for Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge # 90 to matte_kudasai.

Thank you!
Yavor

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by YavorD

Well, as Froggy mentioned elsewhere there is not much enthusiasm on this particular track either.

There is not much I know about this aeroplane. About ten seconds take-off routine was shown in a Russian TV documentary "Крылья России" (Russian Wings). There is no front view. Speech behind the screen is not related to this particular subject. The same movie contains material which obviously was captured in France and Germany. It is a pity I do not know the source, because this particular aeroplane was not mentioned as flying in Russia.
True identity of the machine is another problem. As matte_kudasai noted, and I am going to agree, the machine is pretty much a Roger Sommer monoplane (fabric covered fuselage version) designed by l’ingénieur Tonnet and flown circa 1911/1912 (Les aéroplanes Sommer by Gérard Hartmann). Léon Bathiat flew many variants of this fast monoplane in several competitions during 1910 and 1911. Leonard Opdycke (French Aeroplanes before the Great War) describes numerous variants of the Sommer Type E (or F) and Bathiat-Sanchez Type E. The aeroplane of the pictures is very similar to the Centre Sommer aeroplane "CS 20" from the well known photo (Opdycke, page 245).

-----

I think the enthusiasm is somewhat down at the moment because of vacations. Exact identification of Sommer Monoplanes is next to impossible I think, an elementary classification can be made in open and closed fuselage models (equivalent with Model 1911 and Model 1912 types). Classification of Sommer Biplanes is idem almost impossible, so the origins must be somewhere about Sommer who did not bother at the time at the classification of his types.

Is it possible to see other stills from this footage? The title is obviously not accordance with this part of the footage

Cheers

Kees

[YavorD]

Hi Kees,
I do not know how to handle such files (50 minutes, 430 MB). May be you can do it? Check your mail, please!
Regards,
Yavor

Информация о фильме:
Оригинальное название: Истребители - Первые победы
Год выхода: 2007
Жанр: Документальный сериал
Режиссер: Константин Поляков / Андрей Кулясов
В ролях: самолёты и иx конструкторы
Выпущено: Студия «Крылья России», 2007 г. / 2008 г.
Перевод: оригинал

О фильмe:
Первый фильм из сериала об истории отечественной авиации рассказывает о периоде зарождения и становления истребительной авиации с 1914 по 1939.

Файл:
Продолжительность: 00:50:53
Формат: AVI; DivX Codec 5.2.1 build 1328
Качество: TV-Rip
Видео: 640x480 (4:3); 1065 kb/s; 0.14 bit/pixel; 25 fps
Звук: 48 kHz, MPEG Layer 3, 2 ch, ~102.30 kbps avg
Размер: 430.18 Mb

P.S. URL

[matte_kudasai]

Thank you YavorD, it was very interesting challenge because of red stars on the photo that was VERY misguiding

I will post next challenge in the monday - now i am in ... err... how it in english... little wooden house some distance from city, and writing from my mobile phone

... and will download your whole video also!