Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge # 93

[YavorD]

Welcome to the round 93! Quite obscure, in my opinion, but who knows?
Good hunting!
Yavor

The scoreboard after Pre-1914 ID Challenge # 92

- Caudron monoplane of 1912 with 6 cylinder Anzani engine -

16.60 Rbailey
12.20 Varese2002
8.20 Aquilius
6.70 aerohydro
6.70 richard B
6.30 matte_kudasai
6.00 Cruze
6.00 YavorD
5.50 Airarticles ===> have to wait 12 hours
4.00 Flamingo ==> may start immediately
3.30 Rod_Filan
2.00 berman
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Lodzermensch
1.10 Froggy
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 sobrien
0.40 Wind In The Wires

Rules of engagement:

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

Earlier challenges can be found at Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge™ (recently updated up to and including #92, courtesy of Rod Filan)

[Rod_Filan]

Originally Posted by Yavor

(recently updated up to and including #92, courtesy of Rod Filan)

Thanks for pointing that out Yavor. Please note the current update is missing details of several of the recent challenges. The discussions lately have been very in-depth and it takes a little time to condense the given information into a single paragraph. I wont name the palaverous rascal, but his initials are KK.
-
Cheers
Rod

[Aquilius]

This is the Wiseman biplane also known as Wiseman-Cooke biplane from 1910/1911, a pusher that combined the designes of Wright, Farman and Curtiss.

It was fitted with an overholed 4-cylinder engine from a “San Francisco engine company” by Frederick J. Wiseman, who increased the power output to 50 hp.
It is also mentioned to be the first biplane to be flown in California.

Identification features are
• the cross-tail on the tapered booms,
• the front elevator and the landing gear
• the interplane ailerons
• the engine with it's seperated cylinders and finally
• the low placed pilot seat infront of the wings


edit:

I believe the very clean photograph was taken at a photo-session in 1947 for the San Francisco Chronicle.

"Today it is proudly displayed in the Smithsonian's National Postal Museum in Washington, D.C." after beeing restored in 1983-1985 by the NSAM.

More can be read here: Aviator Fred J. Wiseman


Cheers

Aquilius

[Aquilius]

@ link to previous challenges

Yavor, your link only lead me to challenge #092.
Anyhow, here you can find the updated list: Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

Rod, you are doing a great job here. I do like the form to name a few more facts with the designs and I know that needs some work.

I also will add something on the Aman Taube, but did not had much time these days
- examina weeks, that are luckily over tomorrow




Aquilius

[Rbailey]

Aquilius - I have seen this referred to as Noonan-Wiseman as well - Noonan having some financial contribution. It was his second machine.

[YavorD]

Congratulations Aquilius!
Your answer is correct according to the Smitsonian version of the story.

However, there is another story from Pittsburg and Oakland, California, and at least one source relates it to the same picture.



Source: Oakland Aviation (CA) (Images of Aviation) (Paperback) by Ronald T. Reuther and William T. Larkins, Arcadia Publishing, 2008.

What you think about these two stories?

Regards,
Yavor

The scoreboard after Pre-1914 ID Challenge # 93

- Wiseman biplane, also known as Wiseman-Cooke biplane from 1910/1911, a pusher that combined the designes of Wright, Farman and Curtiss. -

16.60 Rbailey
12.20 Varese2002
9.20 Aquilius
6.70 aerohydro
6.70 richard B
6.30 matte_kudasai
6.00 Cruze
6.00 YavorD
5.50 Airarticles ===> have to wait 12 hours
4.00 Flamingo ==> may start immediately
3.30 Rod_Filan
2.00 berman
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Lodzermensch
1.10 Froggy
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 sobrien
0.40 Wind In The Wires

P.S. It was the link I copied before and, obviously, missed Ctrl-C on the correct URL.

[Aquilius]

Yavor, I looked a little more what I could find here.
I agree these notes are a little contradicting.

Only, I don’t have any books or magazines to hand here and just could compare what is to find in the web. According to Aerofiles there are 3 aircraft that are included in this story – two built by Wiseman and one by Maupin and Lanteri’s “Diamond Aircraft Co.”

Aerofiles offers theses pictures:


1910 Wiseman Biplane with modified 50 hp automobile engine (looks like a V-type)


1911 Wiseman-Noonan Pusher with Hall-Scott engine (I have not a possible model but it looks also like a 8-cylinder V-type)


1910 Black Diamond Pusher with 50 hp Roberts 4LW (a 4-cylinder inline engine)

Though looking very similar, the three-cycle undercarriage of the Diamond Pusher differs to that shown in the picture. And Aerofiles continues the history. After beeing stored away by the NSAM in 1948 it was send back to California in 1998, was restored and now is exhibited in the Hiller Aviation Museum in San Carlos.
The Diamond Pusher story is also told here: Hiller Aviation & Museum | Events
And several webshots show the Curtiss-type pusher with 3-cycle landing gear in the museum: 1911 Diamond 1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!


So I think we do have here the second biplane built by Wiseman with financial support from Noonan, that was purchased by Weldon B.Cooke. He repowered the pusher with an 75 hp Roberts engine, that explains the different engine seen in the pictures.
Roberts built inline engines, though the 75 hp is given as a 6-cylinder inline.
Maybe there was another one apart from the 75 hp Roberts 6LW?


The cunfusion might be caused by the connection with Weldon B. Cooke who flew both aircrafts and if not looked closer to these pushers they look very similar.

But I must admit my answer given after a quick search was not quite correct as I didn’t seperated between the two Wiseman biplanes. But maybe the new engine qualifies to name it “Wiseman-Cooke”?

Oh, and not to forget, the different tank installation indicates that the two pictures offered before were not taken on the same day. I thought it could have been ‘cause the airfield does not really look like a pre-war field.


Cheers

Aquilius

[YavorD]

Thank you, Aquilius!
It looks to be at least three different airframes with engine and other detail variations. I have doubts about possible use of a motor-driven fuel pump so tank position below the upper wing makes sense.
Regards,
Yavor