Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge #099

[Rbailey]

Whoever gets this challenge will have the honor of posting #100 so #099 should at least be unusual. I don't know if that equates with difficult.



Scoreboard after challenge #098 - Faccioli No. 3:

17.60 Rbailey
13.20 Varese2002
9.20 Aquilius
7.70 aerohydro
6.70 richard B
6.30 matte_kudasai
6.00 Cruze
6.00 YavorD
5.50 Airarticles
5.00 Flamingo ===> have to wait 12 hours

3.70 Rod_Filan ==> may start immediately
2.00 berman
2.00 joegertler
2.00 Lodzermensch
2.00 sobrien
1.10 Froggy
1.00 Doc
1.00 paolomiana

0.40 Wind In The Wires

The rules of engagement:

1. The thread title must be "Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

Earlier Challenges are to be found here: Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

[Varese2002]

I think this machine is from USA origin and shows the Schmidt Biplane from 1911 / 1912 in the building stage (not yet finished). Very typical are the circular forms used in the machine, which apparently flew well against all expectations.

There is a more finished view of the machine (slightly different, other tail etc.) on Aerofiles, who notes that the two propellers (tractors) were chaindriven from an engine placed in the apparently closed fuselage.

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

Sorry Kees, not Schmidt. And this is the finished machine.

[Rbailey]

It is difficult to find useful hints for this one. It was built in 1911 or 12 and was reported to be in existence in 1915, but it is uncertain if it ever flew. Perhaps a different view will help.

[Rbailey]

Perhaps one reason this machine did not want to fly was the fact that it had only a 12 hp Buchet engine. Although the engine was French, the aeroplane was not.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Perhaps one reason this machine did not want to fly was the fact that it had only a 12 hp Buchet engine. Although the engine was French, the aeroplane was not.

Not even 12 hp did the Buchet engine, given this description (source Flight 1955 p. 142)

The biplane glider was fitted with skids and Col. Capper (the late Sir John Capper); made one soaring glide in it; but it never flew with power at Blair Atholl as it crashed when being launched. It was fitted with two 12 h.p. Buchet engines driving two metal propellers, the drive being by heavy flat leather belts driving factory-type pulleys. The engines gave endless trouble and never developed more than 8 h.p. each; one or other always stopped as soon as they were running together.

Sure the machine did not manage to come loose from the ground.

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

It seems that the designer had considerable difficulty in obtaining an engine, perhaps because of location, so he made do with the only one available to him.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

It seems that the designer had considerable difficulty in obtaining an engine, perhaps because of location, so he made do with the only one available to him.

As the machine is not French, I searched around for it in different countries. Italy, Swiss and Russia are (for me) stricken from the lists of candidates as I could not find a machine which came anywhere near this 'circular' machine, which could easily be called a triplane (biplane + 'extra' wing at the end of the fuselage at tail side). Intend to go on searching per country

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

Kees - you have stricken correctly. You can also strike Britain, as the machine comes from a country with limited availability of aircraft engines. The machine is known by the designer's name, plus a version of the name of the country in which it was built.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Kees - you have stricken correctly. You can also strike Britain, as the machine comes from a country with limited availability of aircraft engines. The machine is known by the designer's name, plus a version of the name of the country in which it was built.

I have ruled out Japan as a possible candidate for this challenge machine, so thinking about your clue that the machine might still exist in 1915, I think it must originate from the America's down under (Mexico, Cuba, Paraguay, Chile, Equador, Argentine, Brazil etc.). But I could not find much at the moment that comes very close to the challenge machine.

Muchas gracias or possibly muitíssimo obrigado

Kees