Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge #116

[Varese2002]

Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge #116

Have a good time with this one. Give everything you can find about this eccentric beauty .

Cheers

Kees



The scoreboard after the start of challenge #115 is:

20.70 Rbailey
15.20 Varese2002
12.60 aerohydro
11.20 Aquilius
7.30 matte_kudasai
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 YavorD
5.70 Rod_Filan
5.50 Airarticles
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
3.00 Lodzermensch
3.00 joegertler
2.00 berman
2.00 sobrien
2.00 Doc
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
0.40 Wind In The Wires

The rules of engagement:

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

[berman]

All those umbrellas yet no protection for the pilot. Appears to have a standard spoke wheel for the front but wood spoke rear wheels. Maybe taken from an automobile.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by berman

All those umbrellas yet no protection for the pilot. Appears to have a standard spoke wheel for the front but wood spoke rear wheels. Maybe taken from an automobile.

In those times (here 1910) no thought whatsoever was given for the safety of the flier. One had to be extremely couregeous to step in and fly at all Luckily machines did not fly very high in the beginning (a few meters) and speed was also very low.

Cheers

Kees

[Aquilius]

This curiosity is the flying machine built by James F. Scott in Chicago 1910.

It is always characterised as a helicopter. The pilot’s seat and the 40 hp engine that drove a pusher prop were placed above a three-wheel landing gear. In front and behind two sets of disks were mounted on V-frames and should provide the lift by moving up and down.
Opposed to a promising model it did not leave the ground at all.

Aerofiles offers this:

In the summer of 1910 he came back in Chicago and built a helicopter with 16 disks. When moved up and down by a lightweight engine, the disks were supposed to lift and sustain the machine in the air. A full-sized craft completed in September failed to fly although it had been patterned after a model which did "all sorts of stunts." One observer caustically remarked that Scott's helicopter would at least take first prize as the most fantastic flying machine in Chicago at that time.

Cheers

Aquilius

[aerohydro]

An unusual aeroplane to be sure, so unusual in fact that it features in a book on helicopters!

This is the 1910 flying machine of James Scott of Chicago. Recognisable because it has a series of flying discs, that are of mysterious purpose.

See more info American airplanes: Sa - Si and Rainbow Chasers (Avn Pioneers)

Paul

[Varese2002]

The experts has struck again after their 12 hour wait. Really I thought the machine of Scott took some more time to identify. Probably because it is so special and relatively much publicized it is deservedly more famous than others

James Scott flourished in the Chicago area and was very active in designing and actually building machines during 1908 - 1910. In this way at least his work is different from other designers, who only designed but not built.

The texts which are on the internet are based (word for word) from two books which cover the history of aviation in Illinois (Chicago). It would have been correct to give at least a reference to the sources. These are

Scamehorn, H. Lee. 1957. Balloons to jets; [a century of aeronautics in Illinois, 1855-1955]. Chicago: H. Regnery Co.

Young, David, and Neal Callahan. 1981. Fill the heavens with commerce: Chicago aviation, 1855-1926. Chicago, Ill: Chicago Review Press.

The original negative is still with us and looks like this (coursety of the Chicago Daily News)



The pilot is given as aviator G. Haury and the mechanic (?) - the man behind the propeller - as Tony Mazzinetto.

Surprisingly there is another picture, which was published in the Chicago Daily Tribune September 18, 1910 where the machine is to be seen in the building stage. Unfortunately a very dim scan, but ....



.... interesting for the text 'sixteen-disc Heliocopter with motor being built by J I Scott'

Points etc. in the next post.

Cheers

Kees

[Varese2002]

Correct answer

The sixteen disc Heliocopter designed and built by James Scott in Chicago, 1910.

According to the strict Breguet rules the points goes to Aquilius, being the first to come in.

The scoreboard after the end of challenge #116 is:

20.70 Rbailey
15.20 Varese2002
12.60 aerohydro
12.20 Aquilius
7.30 matte_kudasai
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 YavorD
5.70 Rod_Filan
5.50 Airarticles
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
3.00 Lodzermensch
3.00 joegertler
2.00 berman
2.00 sobrien
2.00 Doc
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
0.40 Wind In The Wires

Challenge #117 goes to Aquilius.

Cheers

Kees

[aerohydro]

The book I was referring to was The Helicopters, by Warren Young, which forms part of the "Epic of Flight" series from Time-Life (ISBN 0809433508).

(My computer is at a different location to my book collection, so I had to go back to check exactly which helicopter book it had appeared in!)

Cheers,
Paul

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by aerohydro

----
This is the 1910 flying machine of James Scott of Chicago. Recognisable because it has a series of flying discs, that are of mysterious purpose.

---l

James Scott had the idea that by a down/up movement of the discs, the machine would rise from the ground. As often in early aviation he thought of air having the same properties like water (liquid). So he chose discs (16 of them) which were moved vertically (a pumping movement also seen by some other early machines). I cannot envisage how he did the movement of the discs technically from the engine.
Central in the machine was an engine driving a pusher propeller.

It would be nice to see an artist impression of one of the top artists in the forum Aerodrome of this machine, but we need than at least a better scan of the machine under construction as published in the Chicago Daily Tribune 1910.

One of the best (English language) books on the history of helicopters is by

Liberatore, E. K. 1998. Helicopters before helicopters. Malabar, Fla: Krieger Pub. 298 p. ISBN 9781575240534

Cheers

Kees