Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge #119

[Varese2002]

Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge #119

Another special one I think. We will how quick the specialists will have identified this one. Perhaps also the who, when and where ? Have a fine time searching this one out.

Cheers

Kees



The scoreboard at the start of Challenge #119 is:

20.70 Rbailey
16.20 Varese2002
12.60 aerohydro
12.20 Aquilius
7.30 matte_kudasai
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 YavorD
5.70 Rod_Filan
5.50 Airarticles
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
3.00 berman
3.00 Lodzermensch
3.00 joegertler
2.00 sobrien
2.00 Doc
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
0.40 Wind In The Wires

Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

The rules of engagement:

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[berman]

Israel Ludlow had a similar kite that was piloted by Charles Hamilton on October 22, 1905. Short towed flight on the Hudson River. The 1905 model had two cells instead of the four shown in the photo. I assume he halved the number of cells to reduce drag therefore I think the challenge photo shows an earlier model.

[Varese2002]

Sure berman you are quite near the target, but not on target. The bets are still open, though.

Cheers

Kees

[Rbailey]

Ludlow multiplane of 1912. Four pairs of wings with high dihedral on multiple pontoons

This comes from Aerofiles, but I have not been able to confirm anything this late. Ludlow had 10 or more machines (kites) in 1905-6 but the only information I have outside of aerofiles has them land based.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Ludlow multiplane of 1912. Four pairs of wings with high dihedral on multiple pontoons

This comes from Aerofiles, but I have not been able to confirm anything this late. Ludlow had 10 or more machines (kites) in 1905-6 but the only information I have outside of aerofiles has them land based.

I read the entry of Israel Ludlow in aerofiles, unfortunately a lot of this entry is not correct. As a consequence your answer is also not correct.

Cheers

Kees

[aerohydro]

It's certainly one of the kites built by Israel Ludlow, but this specific example was the one that had appeared at the Jamestown Exposition in 1907. At this website you'll find the following photo and the caption that goes with it:

Historic art print of the Flying Machine built by Mr. Israel Ludlow at the Aeronautical Building in the Jamestown Exhibition, 1907. The United States Government felt sufficiently impressed by the machine as to place a torpedo-boat at Ludlow's disposal, in order to tow the machine, which floats on pontoons.

Cheers,
Paul

[Rod_Filan]

The United States Government felt sufficiently impressed by the machine as to place a torpedo-boat at Ludlow's disposal, in order to tow the machine, which floats on pontoons.

Ludlow was appointed Director of Aeronautics at the Jamestown Tricentennial Exposition, so that wouldn't come as a surprise. The pilot of this kite is probably the fearless Chas. K. Hamilton.
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Cheers

[Rod_Filan]

If my math is correct Ludlow was injured on Aeroplane No.11.

aerofiles:
Multiplane c.1912 = Little is known about this creation by Israel with the help of Army soldiers except that it was built from miscellaneous scrap material, including parts of an old boiler. Four V-shaped wings mounted on a frame, and floats attached. It was demonstrated, minus engine, during an exposition, towed by a motorboat, but was badly damaged in the process and never completed.

This describes the challenge machine and must be Ludlow Aeroplane No.12.

aerofiles:
1907 = Undescribed entrant in Flying Machine events at 1907 Intl Aeronautic Tournament at St Louis MO (10/21-24/07).

probably Ludlow Aeroplane No.13 (or 25th kite experiment). (see attached).
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Cheers

[Varese2002]

This turned out more difficult then I thought, but ... at least this is one of the devices developed by Israel Ludlow, a lawyer by profession, but an enthusiastic pioneer of flight.



The problem is of course the exact identification of the device on the challenge picture.

The picture is taken from the following book written by the longtime chief editor of the English magazine Flight for Putnam

King, H. F. 1966. Aeromarine origins: the beginnings of marine aircraft, winged hulls, air-cushion and air-lubricated craft, planing boats and hydrofoils. London: Putnam.

It is given that the device was constructed in the Aeronautical Building at Jamestown - for the Jamestown Exposition of 1907 - by ten soldiers placed at the disposal of Mr Israel Ludlow, its originator, by the U.S. Government. The machine was towed by a torpedo boat, but the intended two petrol engines were apparently never installed and the craft was eventually wrecked. The device was a multiplane machine with floats.

The Jamestown Exposition 1907 leads to the following source -

Yarsinske, Amy Waters. 1999. Jamestown Exposition: American imperialism on parade - Volume 2. Images of America. Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia.

You sensed it already, a different story, but the picture of the Ludlow device is complete, exactly the format (with cruiser) as presented by Paul. The story mentions (abridgedment of pages 115-116) that the machine was designed and piloted by J.G.Maas for the Jamestown Exposition 1907. A 300-foot rope hawser was attached to the aircraft and to a Navy tug, the USS Potomac. Not succesfull as the floats waterlogged. A second attempt was made with a result that the machine sank, the pilot could be picked up without harm. Machine being lost. Quite the same story, without mentioning of intentioned use of engines and no mention of Ludlow (!).

I would forego J.G.Maas identification and identify this machine as the Israel Ludlow Flying device (glider) on floats dated 1907, tried once in Jamestown Exposition.

The picture presented by Rod with Ludlow crippled in a wheelchair (the result of a crash in 1904 with another machine) is very interesting, but it is stated as 1907 in St. Louis (probably the International Aeronautic Tournament at St. Louis 1907). Machine looks different from the one on the Challenge picture.

I will allott the points as follows

0.3 Berman - who came first with Israel Ludlow
0.2 RBailey - further specification of Ludlow machine
0.2 Aerohydro - presenting a full picture and giving it as the Jamestown 1907 device
0.2 Rod_Filan - further specification, although I could not follow the sequence numbers of the Ludlow planes. The St. Louis Ludlow device is defined in sources as a landplane, launched on a three-wheeled cart (Wright-like idea) but it did not leave the ground as did all other contestants.

The scoreboard at the end of Challenge #119 is:

20.90 Rbailey
16.20 Varese2002
12.80 aerohydro
12.20 Aquilius
7.30 matte_kudasai
6.70 richard B
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 YavorD
5.90 Rod_Filan
5.50 Airarticles
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
3.30 berman
3.00 Lodzermensch
3.00 joegertler
2.00 sobrien
2.00 Doc
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
0.40 Wind In The Wires

Challenge #120

Aerohydro

Cheers

Kees

[Rod_Filan]

Originally Posted by Kees

..Ludlow crippled in a wheelchair (the result of a crash in 1904 with another machine) is very interesting, but it is stated as 1907 in St. Louis (probably the International Aeronautic Tournament at St. Louis 1907). Machine looks different from the one on the Challenge picture. ...further specification, although I could not follow the sequence numbers of the Ludlow planes.

I can understand why I confused you. It was very late last night when I posted my answer.

I'll explain better:
Throughout the New York Times during 1905 the kites Chas Hamilton "flew" were designated Ludlow Aeroplanes No.# . IIRC I've found stories referring to No.4, 5, 8, 9 and 10. I.E. Ludlow's aeroplane, No. 9 ... Aeroplane No. 8.

New York Times. December 17, 1905. [**SEE ATTACHED CLIPPING**]
LUDLOW TO TRY ONCE MORE.; To Make One More Aeroplane and Then Quit for the Season.
Israel Ludlow, who has built and smashed ten areoplanes in his efforts to make a machine that will fly, announced yesterday that he would build another and then quit for the season.

Probably because the river froze earlier than expected Ludlow apparently tested his 12th Aeroplane in Florida in April - not waiting until "next season" in New York. As Ludlow said, interrupting the NYTimes reporter in mid-December when asked about his next experiment: "Oh, this is the eleventh kite, there have been - let me see - twenty-two experiments." Here in Florida is when he was paralyzed. Hamilton was luckier:

New York Times. April 10, 1906.
FALLS FROM AEROPLANE INTO SURF AT FLORIDA; Hamilton Drops 200 Feet -- Saved by Machine's Wreckage. AUTOS RAISED AIR CRAFT But Strain of the Ropes Shattered the Light Framework -- Rescuers' Quick Work.
ATLANTIC BEACH, Fla., April 9. -- As a curtain raiser to the automobile tournament which begins on the beach hero to-morrow Charles K. Hamilton of New York, who navigated an aeroplane over the North River last Summer, to-day made a flight on the beach with the improved Ludlow aeroplane.

April 15, 1906.
ISRAEL LUDLOW INJURED IN FALL OF AEROPLANE; Pinned to His Seat by Broken Wings of His Machine. DROPPED ABOUT 200 FEET Inventor's Spine Hurt and His Legs Paralyzed by Accident at Atlantic Beach, Fla.
ATLANTIC BEACH, Fla., April 14. -- Israel Ludlow of New York, inventor of the aeroplane, was so badly injured by a fall here to-day that he probably will die.

April 17, 1906.
INJURED AERONAUT HERE.; Ludlow, Who Fell from His Aeroplane, Paralyzed Below the Waist.
Israel Ludlow, inventor of the Ludlow aeroplane, who was injured by falling 200 feet from his machine at Atlantic Beach, Fla., on Saturday, was brought to this city yesterday.

Assuredly a long convalescent period followed. Then presumably came the Challenge machine at the Jamestown Exposition which ran April 26 - December 1, 1907. So far absent from any newspaper search, but I'll go out on a limb and say probably tried during the summer, which makes it the 13th Aeroplane / 24th experiment.

Followed by St. Louis, as part of the Gordon Bennett Cup Races, among heavier-than-air entries listed for the week of October 21st:

New York Times. October 20, 1907.
"Israel Ludlow, Superintendent of Aeronautics at the Jamestown Exposition, with his invention, the Ludlow aeroplane."

Special to the New York Times. October 20, 1907.
"Israel Ludlow in the Jamestown"

That would be Aeroplane No.14 / 25th experiment ...the wheelchair photo above - part of group showing the airship races - and I assume was also built at Jamestown by the Army Signal Corps.

The following summer...

New York Times. July 5, 1908.
AIRSHIP BREAKS DOWN.; Ludlow's Machine Was Starting on a Test Trip in Washington.
WASHINGTON, July 4. -- A defective casting coupling the 15 horse power petroleum engine to the seven-foot propeller of his heavier-than-air flying machine, was, so Israel Ludlow, the inventor, thinks, the only thing that prevented him from celebrating the National birthday anniversary by a successful flight.

Also mentioned: Assisted by F.L. Rice - R.S. Moore pilot - tractor configuration - dihedral wings - has front wheels - test flight made on fresh asphalt road - another trial will be made with a more powerful motor.

From aerofiles: Ludlow:

1908 = Unknown type with a 22hp Whitehead (Weisskopf) motor, but described as having "six surfaces measuring 22' across." (Data: Nick D'Alto in Skyways #145.)

Is this Aeroplane No.15 / Ludlow's 26th experiment (?)

Anyways... my answer was wrong. I didn't read the clipping correctly... it really was late. ...and nobody said anything about a math quiz.
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Cheers