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| Pioneer Aviation Topics related to the aviators and aeroplanes prior to WWI |
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19 September 2009, 09:46 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,461
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Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge #123
The scoreboard at the end of Challenge #122; the Dinelli Aereoplano glider from Argentina, is:
21.40 Rbailey
17.20 Varese2002
12.80 aerohydro
12.20 Aquilius
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.00 richard B
6.90 Rod_Filan
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 YavorD
5.50 Airarticles
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
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3.30 berman
3.00 Lodzermensch
3.00 joegertler
2.00 sobrien
2.00 Doc
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
0.40 Wind In The Wires
0.20 Willi Von Klugermann
Quote:
The rules of engagement:
1. The thread title must be "Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge.
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.
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Gentlemen,
At first I thought this apparatus might be too obscure, however, after researching the inventor, it appears he is very deserving of the tribute and recognition that will undoubtedly come from his inclusion in Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge. So with that in mind, I've decided to offer a couple of clues right off the get-go:
1. This patented device is only the mechanism of the entire air craft - although, for our purposes, the remaining 'materials' are of little importance in the scheme of the entirety.
2. This man's son's claim to fame is an important aviation first.
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Good Luck.
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19 September 2009, 11:28 PM
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#2 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,461
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Alright, it's been over 12 hours, so I'll add a drawing of the complete machine. Whether that helps or not... probably not.
And not that it's important, but notice the counter-rotating propellers... invented by John Ericsson - patent No.588, issued Feb. 1, 1838.
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Cheers
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20 September 2009, 10:17 PM
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#3 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 918
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Ahem, it is the "Air Ship", circa 1903, as designed, patented, and partially built by John Berry of St Louis, Missouri. To comply with rule 10 of the Challenge, I recognised the design because the illustration happens to fully match up with the one in the patent.
The son's "important aviation first", that Rod refers to, concerns Albert Berry being the first man to make a parachute jump from an airplane, though Wikipedia notes that this isn't an undisputed claim.
A New York Times article, dated March 2nd, 1912, about the parachute jump can be read here. I have to say the article reads all quite normally, and does not demand your attention, at least not until you come across this section:
According to the Muskogee History and Genealogy blog, John Berry remained an active balloonist, at least until 1916.
Paul
Last edited by aerohydro; 21 September 2009 at 12:03 AM.
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21 September 2009, 08:31 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,461
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You are quite right Paul! Very well done for such an unknown piece of early aviation history.
I will wrap up this Challenge in about eight hours.
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Cheers
Rod
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21 September 2009, 07:55 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,461
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John Berry (1849-1931) was an inventor, mechanic, car-dealer, and builder of balloons in St. Louis who in 1907 was slated to race his airship in the dirigible races held in conjunction with the Gordon Bennett balloon race. For unknown reasons it was never tried and no photos of it are known to exist. It's unsure as to when the airship was built, but I assume it wasn't ready until circa 1907, if in fact it ever really was. Robert Rechs says Berry attempted his first airship flight in 1904 and was successful in 1907. I can find no confirmation of either claim. The photograph I presented for this challenge is inscribed 1907.
Berry made his first balloon flight (a smoke balloon) in 1862 at the age of 13 from Rochester, N.Y., and his first gas balloon flight the following year. "The Dean of American Aeronauts", Capt. Berry made more than 500 balloon flights during his aeronautical career which lasted sixty years; his last flight taking place in 1922.
A brief note on the son, Albert Berry, who was, by the looks of the information Paul provided, estranged from his father:
Quote:
Grant Morton, some believe, was the first man to jump by parachute from an airplane, although Captain Albert Berry, who had previously jumped from balloons, is another claimant for that honor. Morton, late in 1911, is reported to have jumped from a Wright Model B airplane flying over Venice Beach, California. Morton carried his folded parachute in his arms; as he jumped he threw his canopy into the air. The parachute opened, and Morton landed safely.
Captain Albert Berry, who like his father John Berry, was somewhat experienced with balloons and parachutes, completed a successful parachute jump from a Benoist flown by Tony Jannus near St. Louis on March 1, 1912. His 36 foot diameter parachute was packed in a cone-shaped container fastened underneath and forward of the pilot. Instead of being strapped in a harness, Berry sat on a trapeze bar attached to the suspension cords.
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Something Kees may find interesting that I have attached. Berry, like Bud Mars as we found out during the Ludlow challenge - although under far different circumstances - was also prematurely given up for dead by the press.
I'll reserve the right to add to the biographical summary of John Berry if I find the time, but for now... it's over to Paul for Challenge #124.
The scoreboard at the end of Challenge #123; the Berry Airship of 1907, is:
21.40 Rbailey
17.20 Varese2002
13.80 aerohydro
12.20 Aquilius
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.00 richard B
6.90 Rod_Filan
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 YavorD
5.50 Airarticles
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
3.30 berman
3.00 Lodzermensch
3.00 joegertler
2.00 sobrien
2.00 Doc
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
0.40 Wind In The Wires
0.20 Willi Von Klugermann
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Last edited by Rod_Filan; 21 September 2009 at 08:12 PM.
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23 September 2009, 12:54 AM
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#6 (permalink)
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Guest
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Apeldoorn, Netherlands
Posts: 5,287
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Thanks Rod for an interesting story about the Berries. Here is a small piece about the Berries, from an advertisement in Popular Mechanics March 1915
You can follow a practical correspondence course to become an aviator. Course given by Capt. John Berry - Champion Aeronaut of America. The Berries certainly did not hide from the public
Cheers
Kees
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24 September 2009, 06:41 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Saskatoon Saskatchewan
Posts: 2,461
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Thanks Kees. I can say quite assuredly that I'm not the only one presenting interesting stories around here.
Just a quick point I wanted to make...
I haven't researched it thoroughly, but I had run across the fact John Berry was also a fixed-wing aviator - receiving his brevet very late in life. This made me wonder if when that occurred, if he wasn't the oldest person to do so at the time(?)
He also had a flying/automobiling school for women circa 1920; the learn-to-fly by correspondence school is new to me. Thanks for posting that.
BTW, Berry is a proper name so the plural is Berrys. Berries are what bears eat  ...I suppose that would be a common mistake for someone with a far above average command of English as their second language.
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Cheers
edit: Forgot to mention: The title "Champion Aeronaut of America" in that Pop-Mech ad was probably to do with his winning the first American balloon race. IIRC that was 1909 perhaps - traveling only about 325 miles - but the winner nevertheless.
Last edited by Rod_Filan; 24 September 2009 at 06:50 PM.
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24 September 2009, 11:02 PM
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#8 (permalink)
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Guest
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Apeldoorn, Netherlands
Posts: 5,287
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The title Champion Aeronaut of America was awarded by the Aero Club of America (Champion aeronaut of the Aero Club of America). Balloonists got a seprate title which could be awarded in competition, like here for the first time
NY Times May 18, 1909
Quote:
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AERONAUTS TO TRY FOR BALLOON TITLE; Six Pilots Entered for America's First Championship Race Next Month. LONG FLIGHTS EXPECTED Contest Will Open Auto Speedway at Indianapolis -- Starters Also to Compete for Lahm Cup.
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The first National balloon race for the title of champion balloonist of the Aero Club of America ....
Of course also John Berry from St. Louis was present with a new balloon.
So it turns out that Berry later also secured the title of Champion aeronaut of the Aero Club of America, quite extraordinary remembering his age.
Cheers
Kees
Last edited by Varese2002; 24 September 2009 at 11:03 PM.
Reason: Typo
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