Fritzsche/Farman mystery.

[Varese2002]

Originally Posted by Faustroll

As a footnote to this interesting thread, although the Flying Fish was a design that Farman always claimed as his own, it was in fact patented by Gabriel Voisin (soon after the closed circuit kilometre in January 1908).

Construction began at the Voisin works in rue de la Ferme before moving to the new factory on the Quai du Point du Jour; the large 'banana' fuselage (one of a series of six) was probably recycled into one of the canard prototypes.

Hi Faustroll, thanks for your interesting remarks. I could not find the brevet acquired by Voisin that you mentioned. Perhaps you can furnish the French brevet number ? Would be very obliged.

This is a drawing - most likely from L'Aérophile 1908 / 1909 - the most interesting thing I have found the use of English for naming the machine 'Flying-Fish' (Poisson volant). The machine is here named Henri Farman No.2.



Concerning who was the initiator of the machine, we simply will never know. Probably a duo deal. Later in their career they seperated as they say in manegement as a result of 'incompatibilité d'humeur'.

The next photograph is taken in the Ateliers Voisin in Billancourt, where you can see at least three fuselages of the Flying Fish (!) It is somewhat special why they built at least three (maybe six according to Faustroll). Probable there were orders, otherwise it would be not very business-like and probably loose a lot of money, which they probably did anyway with the Flying fish



Cheers

Kees

[Faustroll]

Absolutely, Kees - this Aérophile plan is the same in every respect as the drawing supplied by Gabriel Voisin in his application for brevet FR386396 several months earlier, although Farman later wrote several times claiming it as his concept.

In Flight magazine in January 1909, he is quoted as saying that one of the three aeroplanes he then had under construction was “a revolutionary monoplane” which he already patented. Since no such patent exists (and the first Farman monoplane didn’t appear until 18 months later), he was still presumably referring to the Fish.

It feels like a Voisin design, though. Apart from the undercarriage, the fuselage is essentially the same as for the Goupy and de Bolotoff triplanes as well as the canards and the Voisin-engined tractor biplane later acquired by Jacquelin.

Whatever the truth of the matter, Charles Voisin was the only one of the three to pursue the (misguided) idea of stubby-winged multiplanes as being usable on the road as well as in the air.

And since we have expertise of matters German and Austrian in these pages, can anyone shed any light on what happened to Farman's first and most famous Voisin?

Its last recorded flight was in the hands of Legagneux on behalf of the Wiener Syndikat zur Veranstaltung von Schauflügen in May 23 1900, after which it was sent to the Militär-Aeronautische Anstalt for repairs; its final resting place was apparently the Vienna Army Museum, but there the trail goes cold. Hard to believe that having escaped destruction or recycling for long enough to become an exhibit, the archetype of the first series production aircraft in the world would have been thrown away. We shall never know, until someone one day recognises a beak-like elevator prow poking out of a box of sticks in a museum basement somewhere...

[Varese2002]

Thanks for the information on the Voisin brevet FR386396. Unfortunately it is not available in Espacenet. Is there any way to get a scan of this undoubtedly interesting brevet ?

I did not know that the original Voisin - Farman was left in Vienna. There is a story here

Schließlich kam das Flugzeug ins Heeresgeschichtliche Museum

If we trust this story the machine was delivered to the Museum and it is not stated that it was taken out again. Personally I do not think that the Voisin-Farman No.1 is a key-item in a Vienna museum as the machine had (almost) no connection to Vienna. Perhaps that might be the reason that the machine was 'reduced to produce' (or silently disappeared from the roster) because space in museums is always at a premium.

Knowing the thoroughness of these museums they have kept their records complete for this particular machine.

Cheers

Kees

[Faustroll]

Thanks for the link - I'm sure you're right.

Here is the drawing for the brevet, but the file size of the whole paper is too big for me to upload; I'd be happy to send it, together with the slightly later one for Charles Voisin's 'Aéromobile' based on the same 'banana' fuselage.

[Varese2002]

Hallo Faustroll, I have sent you a PM (Private Message).

Cheers

Kees

[Aquilius]

I could not resist to contact the Heeresgeschichliche Museum in Vienna if there is something known about the remains of the first Farman biplane built by Voisin.

I just got a response today.

The question is asked sometimes.
I've been told it might be possible the aircraft went in the inventary before World War One, only there are no documents about. And also the biplane is not stored anywhere in the archieves of the HGM. It has been reorganised after WW2 and there was found nothing.

Unfortunately no good news just you didn't need to dig deeper in the basements of the HGM.


Cheers

Aquilius