Breguet's pre-1914 Aircraft ID challenge #146

[richard B]

BONJOUR

I hope you will enjoy this # 146
Good luck

Richard





Previous challenges: Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge



The scoreboard at the end of Challenge #145: Augustus Herring powered glider 1898

24.60 Rbailey
18.80 aerohydro
18.20 Varese2002
14.20 Aquilius
9.50 richard B
9.20 Rod_Filan
7.30 matte_kudasai
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 YavorD
5.50 Airarticles
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
3.50 Lodzermensch
3.30 berman
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sobrien
2.00 Doc
2.00 sodium
1.40 Wind In The Wires
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
0.20 Willi Von Klugermann
0.20 EricGoedkoop


The rules of engagement:

Quote:
1. The thread title must be "Bréguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge.
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet

[Aquilius]

The undercarriage reminds me of a Gotha monoplane.
Could it be the the predecessor of the LE 2, the Gotha LE 1?

I’m usually guessing the wrong one but it’s worth a try.


Cheers

Aquilius

[richard B]

Sorry ,it's not a GOTHA

[Varese2002]

This machine does not look "Taube-like" to me so the Gotha LE models are excluded. Characteristic is the use of the radiator in this Eindecker which got some ideas from the Blériot monoplane. As Aquilius remarked the undercarriage is very sturdy and could take quite a bump. The tail skid has been made extra strong as it is made double.

I am afraid I will have to search through the whole of Lange, Supf etc. to identify this rare one. Dating will be about 1912, because of the still not fully closed fuselage.

Kees

[richard B]

Bonjour à tous .

I wonder why you are " a priori " looking for a german airplane

One time ,I will put on the site the " Blériot traversée de la Manche" and you all will ID it as a german aeroplane

Well ,stop joking :
You both are right ,it's GERMAN and Varese is right for the year :1912 .
Good search

[Varese2002]

Added to the characteristics I have already given earlier is a 4-cylinder water-cooled engine, which I vote as a Hilz 4-cylinder of 55 hp. Combining this I would vote this Eindecker as the Hammer Eindecker designed by Fritz Hammer early in 1912 in Hannover.

The machine crashed on Oktober 4, 1912 killing the pilot August Birkmaier.

Kees

[richard B]

Congratulation Varese ,you have got it .

The caption says :

August Birkmaier's (born on 7/8/1887 in Ebersberg ,Fluglizenz Nr 117 on 20/9/1911) last flight on the 4/10/1912 at Hannover .
HAMMER & KROLLMANN Eindecker .


For HAMMER ,Lange writes "Fritz Hammer" a well known pilot before ,during ,and after the War (in South America)

But there was an "Otto Hammer" too who built four planes in Hannover,the last of them being an "Harlan-Typ".

Difficult to say whether two men named HAMMER built in the same times two different "Harlan-like" monoplanes in Hannover ,or a Lange's mistake for the forename .


The scoreboard at the end of Challenge #146:
-----HAMMER & KROLLMANN Eindecker 1912----

24.60 Rbailey
19.20 Varese2002
18.80 aerohydro
14.20 Aquilius
9.50 richard B
9.20 Rod_Filan
7.30 matte_kudasai
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 YavorD
5.50 Airarticles
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
3.50 Lodzermensch
3.30 berman
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sobrien
2.00 Doc
2.00 sodium
1.40 Wind In The Wires
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
0.20 Willi Von Klugermann
0.20 EricGoedkoop

[Varese2002]

I took the name Fritz Hammer from Lange (1988).

But Flugsport 1912 No.5 page 192 gives

Der Hammer-Eindecker. Otto Hammer in Hannover hat einen Eindecker, der mit einem 55 PS wassergekühlten Hilz-Motor ausgerüstet ist, konstruiert. Der Apparat hat eine Geschwindigkeit von 80 - 100 km pro Stunde. Hammer will nun einen neuen Apparat herausbringen, der für eine Geschwindigkeit von 150 km bestimmt ist. Die Maschine soll mit einer Explosionsturbine ausgerüstet werden.

I slightly prefer the reference Otto Hammer, given the 1912 reference.

I could not find any other reference in Flugwelt about Otto Hammer

The crash of Birkmaier is reported in Flugsport 1912 No. 21

Birkmaier, welcher einen Flugmaschinentyp der Firma Hammer & Krollmann in Hannover einfliegen sollte, ist am 4 Oktober vormittags 10 Uhr tödlich abgestürzt. Birkmaier nahm eine Kurve zu scharf und rutschte, sich überschlagend, links ab. Früher war Birkmaier auf dem Münchner Oberwiesenfeld, wo er auf Blériot das Fleugerzeugnis erwarb, tätig, später bei den Föhn-Werken in Görlitz, bei denen er die Maschinen einflog.

No information about Krollmann.

Kees

[Varese2002]

Just for the record, Birkmaier crashed on the Vahrenwalder Heide near Hannover. This place had already a great history as Karl Jatho used it for his flight experiments.

Interesting things about the Vahrenwalder Heide can be found here.

Kees