Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge #215

[Rbailey]

A more traditional machine.

The scoreboard at the end of Challenge #214: The Underwood flying machine of 1907.

37.20 Rbailey
34.00 aerohydro
31.10 Varese2002
20.50 Aquilius
11.20 richard B
10.70 Rod_Filan
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.30 YavorD
6.70 ermeio
6.50 Airarticles
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
6.00 Lodzermensch
5.00 sobrien
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
4.50 Doc
3.30 berman
3.00 joegertler
2.40 Wind In The Wires
2.00 AnYun
2.00 sodium
1.10 Froggy
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 ulpilot
0.20 Willi Von Klugermann
0.20 EricGoedkoop
__________________


Previous challenges are at:
Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge


The rules of engagement:
Quote:
1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge.
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[Rbailey]

I am surprised at no takers. This machine also was a "first", but not of its nationality.

[aerohydro]

Okay, to narrow the range of countries down somewhat, does this machine originate from somewhere in North America or Scandinavia ?

[Rbailey]

Aerohydro - Yes.

[Rod_Filan]

The first American gull-wing biplane? Based of course on the Wright flyer.
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Cheers

[Rbailey]

Rod - it may have been, but that is not the "first" I had in mind. Like many of these early machines, it resembles the Wright layout, but I don't think that has much significance.

[Rod_Filan]

Well...I thought right right off the top that this was an American machine--so I'm still pretty much where I started

You've certainly found a tough one.
-
Cheers

[Aquilius]

A first machine? - Maybe the first American women-built/designed aircraft?
From another Lillian?


It looks very much like the biplane of Elizabeth Lillian Todd.

Well, E.L. Todd is told to have built/designed at least three havier-than-air-craft. The first one (a glider) in 1906. But this one I believe is the 1910-machine, first flown by Didier Masson over the Garden City field in November 1910.


"The upper planes of the biplane are shaped somewhat like a bird's wings when in flight, while the lower planes are level." [New York Herald, Nov 8, 1910]

something to read here: E. Lillian Todd


Cheers

Aquilius

[Rod_Filan]

When I'd noticed the © on the fence in Ron's photo, that clued me in to it being American. You'll see the front view photo at Ralph Cooper's webpage has the same © and in the text: "Many of the photographs were taken by photographer and artist, K.W. Birdsall and are copyrighted as such."

An interesting aspect is the Todd's engine; I don't recall hearing of it before.

The Rinek aviation motor, constructed by the Rinek Aero Mfg. Co., of Easton, Pa., is another that is meeting with favor among aviators. Type B-8 is an 8-cylinder motor, the cylinders being set at right angles, on a V-shaped crank case. It is water cooled, develops 50-60 h. p., the minimum at 1,220 r. p. m., and weighs 280 pounds with all accessories. Type B-4, a 4-cylinder motor, develops 30 h. p. at 1,800 r. p. m., and weighs 130 pounds complete. The cylinders in both motors are made of cast iron with copper water jackets.

Jackman, W.J., Thomas H. Russell, and Octave Chanute. Flying Machines: Construction and Operation

The engine showing in the challenge photo doesn't seem overly large―although, from this small image, I wouldn't automatically assume we're looking at the 4-cylinder Rinek.

Now I wonder if the Grazer will make it four North America planes in a row
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Cheers

[aerohydro]

Good spotting.

I didn't recognize the aircraft, but I do recognize the name.

E. Lillian Todd had a profile published about her in Women Aloft, which was part of the Time-Life "Epic of Flight" series. I think it focused more on her work with models than on full-sized machines.

Women Aloft
by Valerie Moolman
published 1981, by Time-Life
ISBN 0809432870

Cheers,
Paul