Breguet's pre-1914 Challenge #281

[Breguet]

At the start of #281

#280 - The 1911-1912 monoplane of Slavoljub Šoštarko of Austro-hungarian / Croatian origin.


47.90 aerohydro
44.90 Rbailey
37.85 Varese2002
28.10 Aquilius
18.75 Rod_Filan
15.40 richard B
8.50 Doc
8.00 Lodzermensch
7.70 ermeio
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.30 YavorD
6.50 Airarticles
6.30 AnYun
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
5.00 sobrien
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
4.20 Wind In The Wires
3.30 berman
3.10 Froggy
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sodium
1.00 Catfish
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 Tripehound Flyboy
1.00 ulpilot
0.20 EricGoedkoop

Previous http://members.shaw.ca/flyingaces/br.pre1914/

The Rules:

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge.
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.


Now here is the new one - should be an interesting one - I Hope!!

[Rbailey]

Australian (Douglas) Sloane biplane of 1912(?), notable here for its generally dilapidated appearance.

[Breguet]

Well done! I didn't think this would be well known. Do you have the book put out by his family? Anyway full point and on to the next challenge.....

#281 - Australian (Douglas) Sloane biplane of 1912

47.90 aerohydro
45.90 Rbailey
37.85 Varese2002
28.10 Aquilius
18.75 Rod_Filan
15.40 richard B
8.50 Doc
8.00 Lodzermensch
7.70 ermeio
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.30 YavorD
6.50 Airarticles
6.30 AnYun
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
5.00 sobrien
**************
(those above this section must wait 12 hours before answering,
those below - and everyone else - may answer immediately)
**************
4.20 Wind In The Wires
3.30 berman
3.10 Froggy
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sodium
1.00 Catfish
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 Tripehound Flyboy
1.00 ulpilot
0.20 EricGoedkoop

Previous Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

The Rules:

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge.
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
10. To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[Rod_Filan]

AH,
I understand Sloane built this opposed cylinder engine himself. Was it essentially a copy of the Dutheil-Chalmers?

Cheers

[Rbailey]

I do not have the book. I found this picture on the family heritage webpage which does not seem to be up now. Except for the facts that Sloane lived 1890-1917 and was killed as a gunner in an RE8, I know nothing much about him.

[aerohydro]

The book is "To Fly Like an Eagle" by Alexander Sloane and Ann Sloane (ISBN 064628472X). There are copies listed for sale at bookfinder.com.

The Challenge aircraft was a tailless tractor biplane, but was never completed. I think Douglas Sloane got as far as building the airframe and then getting the engine and prop mated to it, before he had to leave for war. The only substantive work required in order to finish the build was to cover it.

When the book was first published, I'd perused a copy but was dis-inclined to buy it. I recall part of it contained an engineering analysis of the plane, which had determined that if the Sloan biplane had been tested, that it would have been found inherently unstable.

Cheers,
Paul

[Rbailey]

Paul-thanks for the additional information. There is another view on the web (looks like a sketch) that didn't show a tail, but I was not sure it was actually a tailless design.

Ron

[Breguet]

Your right Ron, it did have a tail, albeit a short one. The engine was his own-design - one of the things that held him up in his attempt to fly an Australian aeroplane of his own design. Despite lack of pictures the plane was eventually covered. It was towed behind a car to give it extra power but the engine just didn't have the grunt. The plane did manage a short hop at 'Dick's Plain' swamp in late April 1912.

69 (Australian) Sqn RFC (for all intents and purposes 3 sqn AFC) headed for France on 21.8.17. With it was 2AM Douglas Sloane (observer/gunner), piloted by 2nd Lt FG Shapira in one of the sqn's RE8's. Having some engine trouble, they landed to have it rectified. This was done and after lunch they set off again. The plane reached about 600ft when the nose suddenly dropped and it went into a spin from which it never recovered. They were the first active service casualties of the Sqn.

[aerohydro]

By saying the Sloane Biplane was tailless, I was meaning that there was no horizontal tailplane. There was a small vertical rudder.

Cheers,
Paul