Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft ID Challenge #397

[Rbailey]

Some information about Klassen is in the book on the exhibition - see The 1910 Los Angeles International ... - Kenneth E. Pauley, Dominguez Rancho Adobe Museum - Google Books. Somewhere I seem to recall that he was said to build machines for others, and he did build Zerbe's. In the picture that shows the fire that burned the covering off Klassen's machine (muslin here, rubberized silk in another report but no mention of paper in connection with the fire), and I may be imagining it, but just apparent over the head of the woman in black is something that just might be the challenge machine.

[Rod_Filan]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

... and I may be imagining it, but just apparent over the head of the woman in black is something that just might be the challenge machine.

Holy Smoke!!! You're not imagining things Ron. That's it.

J.C. Klassen, Los Angeles, racing dirigible

I've noticed a lot of these "wish lists" in the press running up to meets/events.

IE. ... I'm still waiting for Horace B. Wild's Parseval airship to arrive at the NY Auto Show.


Cheers

[Tork1945]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

.... and I may be imagining it, but just apparent over the head of the woman in black is something that just might be the challenge machine.

You may be right but .... looking again at the row of four more or less constructed machines on page 45 of the book of Pauley, I noted already that first in the row was a very similar plane to the Challenge machine (but too big rudder) .... and in fourth place there is another machine quite in line with the Challenge machine. It also has the vertical construction over the top wing.

This type of lateral stability seems to be al the rage at the 1910 Meeting in Los Angeles.

Unless there is somewhere a list of more or less completed machines that really appeared at the 1910 Meeting - preferably with photographic or drawn evidence - I fear we will not be able to identify with certainty the Challenge machine.

Apologies to Mr. Filan for bringing the elusive 'news' of Klassen as the driver of a racing dirigible.

Tork1945

[Tork1945]

Coming back again after looking at the picture of the Challenge machine I noticed the small float like constructions at the wingtips. As a landplane and high wing there seems to be little use for these constructions. Perhaps when the machine capsized they would protect the wings ?

Looking at the Challenge picture under enlargement I noticed that at the upper border there seem to be the undersides of letters. This could be the hand written annotation of the machine and event pictured, as sometimes done on pictures of this period.

It is a pity that it is not readable, but there maybe hope that a museum or collector has an original print with the hand written annotation above.

Tork1945

[Rbailey]

Tork - it does seem clear that the actual identity of the challenge is beyond us. I have seen reference to a complete program of the event, but I have no idea of where a copy could be found and it probably wouldn't list any "unofficial" entries anyhow. Any chance you could post a copy of page 45?

[Tork1945]

Originally Posted by Rbailey

Tork - it does seem clear that the actual identity of the challenge is beyond us. I have seen reference to a complete program of the event, but I have no idea of where a copy could be found and it probably wouldn't list any "unofficial" entries anyhow. Any chance you could post a copy of page 45?

The complete program is only a four page leaflet. It can be viewed at

http://archives.csudh.edu:2006/cdm4/...SHOW=966&REC=7

It does not give much information.

Posting a copy of page 45 of the book of Pauley would be an infringement of copyright (the book was published in 2009). I can't do that as I once promised myself to only include material that is out of copyright.

Tork1945

[Rod_Filan]

Apologies to Mr. Filan for bringing the elusive 'news' of Klassen as the driver of a racing dirigible.

No apologies necessary Tork

IIRC there were other dirigibles that were reported to be flown at Dominguez as well. Baldwin's SC-1 (Signal Corp Government airship) is an example that comes to mind. This of course doesn't mean that these machines didn't exist; only that they didn't show. You know ... "best intentions" and all that.

I'll take a look later for contemporary entrant lists that I may have for Dominguez 1910 and see if something doesn't come up. Other than that, IMHO chances are looking pretty slim in solving this one.

Looking at the Challenge picture under enlargement I noticed that at the upper border there seem to be the undersides of letters. This could be the hand written annotation of the machine and event pictured, as sometimes done on pictures of this period.

I quite sure that's my cropped text that I placed at the top left-hand corner of the image. In the meantime I see I've acquired a full-frame photo of the challenge machine (same-same) and it hasn't any annotation.

Cheers

[Rbailey]

Originally Posted by Tork1945

Coming back again after looking at the picture of the Challenge machine I noticed the small float like constructions at the wingtips. As a landplane and high wing there seems to be little use for these constructions. Perhaps when the machine capsized they would protect the wings ?

Looking at the Challenge picture under enlargement I noticed that at the upper border there seem to be the undersides of letters. This could be the hand written annotation of the machine and event pictured, as sometimes done on pictures of this period.

It is a pity that it is not readable, but there maybe hope that a museum or collector has an original print with the hand written annotation above.

Tork1945

The "things" on the ends of the wings are one of the things that seem to be present also in the object I referred to on the fire picture. They could distinguish it from the other examples.

Also, the letters that you detect at the top simply say "Klassen Monoplane~Dominguez Aviation Meet 1910" in type. I don't know where that picture originated, since I got it from the web site I mentioned, but it looks like it comes from a publication of some sort.

It is time to declare this challenge disqualified; I think that means I post another, which I will do later unless someone tells me otherwise.

[Rod_Filan]

I don't know where that picture originated, since I got it from the web site I mentioned, but it looks like it comes from a publication of some sort.

It came from me Ron ... that's my website ... In all likelihood, any photo you find on the web annotated with the font "Georgia" originated from me.

Cheers

[Rbailey]

Originally Posted by Rod_Filan

It came from me Ron ... that's my website ... In all likelihood, any photo you find on the web annotated with the font "Georgia" originated from me.

Cheers

I knew that, Rod. What I meant was where you got it in the first place.