Breguet’s pre-1914 Challenge No 420

[richard B]

Bonjour à tous .

Sorry ,a bad picture again ( but sometimes we have seen worse in this challenge .... )

GOOD LUCK

Richard



Here , the previous challenges ::Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge


Scoreboard at the end of Challenge #419 : Santos-Dumont Demoiselle No 20:

83.70 Rbailey
79.60 aerohydro
52.95 Varese2002
38.20 Aquilius
27.90 Rod_Filan
27.15 richard B
**************
(those above this section must wait 24 hours before answering)
**************
19.70 Tork1945
9.00 Doc
8.50 Lodzermensch
8.00 Airarticles
7.70 ermeio
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.30 YavorD
6.30 AnYun
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
5.00 sobrien
5.35 Froggy
**************
(those immediately above this section must wait 12 hours before answering.)
**************
4.20 Wind In The Wires
3.30 berman
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sodium
1.00 matthewk
1.00 Catfish
1.00 dhc2pilot
1.00 Mattyboy
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 Tripehound Flyboy
0.20 EricGoedkoop

The rules

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge.
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has received 5 (five) points, they belong to ROYALTY, and must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer. Once someone has achieved 25 (twentyfive) points, they must wait 24hrs after the original post before being able to post an answer.
10. In order to correctly identify the flying object, an answer must mention a characteristic of the design which has helped with its identification, or include a reference to a publication or website, which will confirm the attribution.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rule is BREGUET

[Airarticles]

Hello

Seems to me like Friedrichshafen monoplane, but I miss the Taube like wings. It is just my guess.
Milan

[richard B]

Sorry ,it's not it ; but you are in the right land ...

[Aquilius]

Well, for a German machine, I have only two options in my mind - from both I do not know a picture...

So little guessing, but could that be the Wassereindecker built by Hugo Hübner in Mannheim?

If the sequence is correct, that must be the Hübner E III. He entered this monoplane at the first German Seaplane contest in 1912 where it did not left a big mark.

I know of my talent to choose the wrong out of two , but my reason for Hübner are some similarities in the landing gear compared with the predecessor "E II" - the monplane flown by Senge. Also the slight dihedral of the wings was a feature of Hübner's monoplanes. Of the engine and tailplane there is too little to make out for counter-checking details. I guess the powerplant is a 4-cylinder Argus. Further details are higly welcomed.


Cheers

Aquilius

[Tork1945]

Looking again at the hazy picture, is is clear that we see a rather makeshift seaplane (Wasserflugzeug) construction of a landplane. The landplane undercarriage does not have a function at all in this construction, making the machine a Wasserflugzeug only.

At first I thought this might be one of the Eindecker entered for the Heiligendamm Wasserflugzeug Wettbewerb 1912, but .......... the stipulation was that the machine could start on land and descend in the water and vice versa, a real amphibian.

So IMO the entered Hübner and Alk Eindecker in Heiligendamm 1912 are not the Challenge machine. Besides that they differ appreciably from the Challenge machine on other points.

So I am somewhat struck with this one, if there are any clues upcoming I can perhaps come up with other (German) planes.

Tork1945

[richard B]

Bonjour à tous

At first , sorry for Aquilius , it was not a Hübner machine .

If I believe my source , it was a true amphibian ( ! ), and was on the list of competitors for a big competition ( I don't know if it actually participated ) but this was NOT Heiligendamm .

Now ,I think the Challenge is much easier ...

Good Luck

Richard

[Tork1945]

Most likely the Strack Wassereindecker which was entered by the builder Strack Flugzeugwerke Duisburg in the Bodensee-Wasserflug 1913. The machine had a 'typical' amphibian construction which worked special ....

The land undercarriage was fixed but the floats could be moved up and down. When landing on the water the floats were set in the down position, so that the fixed land undercarriage cleared the water. The machine was a fairly conventional monoplane (length 8 meter, span 13 meter, wing surface 28 m2 and total weight without pilot 400 kg).

I have not looked up if the machine was successful in the contest, but I doubt it given the complex undercarriage / float construction.

Tork1945

[richard B]

Congratulation , it's right ... Strack-Flugzeugwerke (Duisburg) Wassereindecker 1913 .

Strack built before two other planes : a Grade-like ED and a high wing monoplane with two propeller .

This picture , from " Flugsport " 1913 shows how it looked on land ...




Scoreboard at the end of Challenge #420 :
Strack FlugzeugwerkeWassereindecker 1913 .

83.70 Rbailey
79.60 aerohydro
52.95 Varese2002
38.20 Aquilius
27.90 Rod_Filan
27.15 richard B
**************
(those above this section must wait 24 hours before answering)
**************
20.70 Tork1945
9.00 Doc
8.50 Lodzermensch
8.00 Airarticles
7.70 ermeio
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.30 YavorD
6.30 AnYun
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
5.00 sobrien
5.35 Froggy
**************
(those immediately above this section must wait 12 hours before answering.)
**************
4.20 Wind In The Wires
3.30 berman
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sodium
1.00 matthewk
1.00 Catfish
1.00 dhc2pilot
1.00 Mattyboy
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 Tripehound Flyboy
0.20 EricGoedkoop

[Tork1945]

About the Strack brothers there is some information at

Flugverein Niederrhein Duisburg

Der 8. Juni 1910 wird dann für den Motorflug in Duisburg zum historischen Datum.
Die Duisburger Bürger Karl und Peter Strack erprobten in der jetzigen Stadtmitte auf dem seinerzeitigen Wiesenhügel am Pulverweg, etwa wo heute das Stadttheater und Stadthaus stehen, ihre erste selbst konstruierte und gebaute „Flugmaschine“ die Strack I.
Mehrere Flüge von vielleicht 50 Metern in 3 Meter Höhe wurden durchgeführt.

So the Strack brothers (Karl and Peter) were the first to fly in Duisburg on June 8, 1910 in their own designed and built machine. The Strack I. They did several hops of 50 meter and about 3 meter high.

Tork1945

[Tork1945]

I looked in the Flugsport reports on the Bodensee Wasserflug 1913 and found that the Strack monoplane was present on the start of the contest on June 28, 1913.

Strack-Eindecker mit vorn liegendem 55 PS Hilz-Motor und zwei hochziehbaren zylinderförmigen Schwimmern

The Bodensee Wasserflug was on seven days from June 29 till July 5th, where Strack with his monoplane got only one mention on the sixth day (July 4th]

Eine kleine Überraschung gab es für manche, die mit Erstaunen sahen, wie Strack auf seinem Wasser-Eindecker mit hochziehbarem Wasserungsgestell glatt die Befähigungsnachweise, Abfliegen vom Wasser, Niedergehen auf das Wasser, erfüllte.

Strack is not mentioned in the published ranking of the contest in Flugsport.

So the machine did participate in the contest and flew on at least one of the days.

Tork1945