Breguet’s pre-1914 Challenge No 421

[Rod_Filan]

Yes.

As in: An answer to a problem that may not be able to be answered easily, if at all.

Cheers

[Rod_Filan]

Originally Posted by Tork

Part 2

A few more pictures show Santos-Dumont with parts of his hélicoptère.

Actually, this photo shows No.11 - an aeroplane project - a monoplane based on the Cayley concept which (other than the model shown) was not constructed.


Cheers

[Rod_Filan]

...found that I had a photo of the No.12 completed...


Cheers

[Tork1945]

Magnificent shot, thanks for viewing. Santos-Dumont had in most cases photographers present (hired ?) to archive his progress in aviation.

Tork1945

[Rod_Filan]

L'Aérophile Roman numbering

They may have been used for style or convienience but are not historically correct – or so it very well seems. In My Airships (pub. 1904) Santos writes all project numbers Arabically. I've looked carefully elsewhere and at this time I can find only three other contemporary sources that use a Roman numeral. An article in Harper's Weekly written by W. L. McAlpin who uses "Santos Dumont VI," the NY Herald refering to photos of №6 as "Santos-Dumont V," and Will's Cigarette Card # 45, printed somewhat later obviously, titled "Santos Dumont's Monoplane, No. XIX." Everyone else uses an Arabic numbering system, almost always preceded with a №, or the common European n°

Physically lettered projects were:

№ 9 "Baladeuse"
№ 14 (on both the original and enlarged envelope)
№ 14 bis
№ 16 (LTA/HTA airship)
№ 18 (wingless hydroplane)
№ 19 "Demoiselle"

A lot of mistaken identity surrounded S-D airships 5, 6, 7 and 8; even still to this day apparently. Santos-Dumont would have known of this at the time. As for an example, he would have seen postcards sold in Paris identified incorrectly - 5 mistaken for 6, 6 being labeled 7 and so forth. So I wonder if he didn't start lettering his airships to help avoid this confusion?

That aside, attached is a scan of an unusual postcard – postally used April 1904 – that makes no sense to me. Is this an Easter card? Hopefully someone can come up with an explanation.

Cheers

[Rod_Filan]

.. photographers present (hired ?) to archive his progress in aviation

I don't know if they were so much hired as much as they just wanted to take photographs of his machines. No need to be contracted by Alberto when a publisher would pay hansomely for a current photo of his latest creation. Although as you point out, he certainly must have hired someone to document the progress of some of his projects, (if not only the final result for posterity before flight-testing). And being independently wealthy, it's not like he couldn't afford to...


Cheers

[Tork1945]

I found a small reference to the Santos-Dumont Hélicoptère in the magazine Le Chauffeur No 231 (August 1, 1906) p. 233

Santos-Dumont ayant été obligé d'abandonner son hélicoptère, décrit dans le Chauffeur No 219, du 1er février 1906, car les longues transmissions par poulies ont refusé de marcher régulièrement sur la monture en bambou, a construit un aéroplane, qu'il essaie actuellement.

Santos-Dumont was forced to abandon his helicopter. described in issue 219 (February 1, 1906) of Chauffeur, because the long transmission pulleys did not work regularly when fitted on the bamboo frame, has constructed another aeroplane, which he is testing at the moment.

According to this statement Santos-Dumont got even further with the assembly of the hélicoptère than shown in the beautiful picture of Mr. Filan, where the engine was not fitted in the bamboo frame to the transmission pulleys.

Till now it was not known to me that S-D progressed this far with the hélicoptère and even tested the propeller construction. Clearly the transmission was a problem, maybe 'flutter'.

Fortunately I have found Issue 219 of Le Chauffeur which describes the S-D hélicoptère in the Bibliothèque Nationale de France.

Tork1945

[Tork1945]

I have enclosed a PDF of the three pages of Le Chauffeur No 219 (February 1, 1906) pp.26-28.

The general arrangement drawing differs somewhat from the other drawing (German text) I previously have shown. It is remarkable that the two propellers for lifting the machine of the ground were contra-rotating as shown.

Tork1945

[Rod_Filan]

Till now it was not known to me that S-D progressed this far with the hélicoptère and even tested the propeller construction.

You and me both. I'm quite glad this challenge came up because, even though it wasn't one of his airships and helicopters being somewhat outside my interests, I've always wondered why there weren't any photos of the helicopter outside of the shed, and that any testing of it never seemed to be mentioned on record. All the parts appeared to be there but usually we only hear, "Was not completed." This excellent pdf reveals a lot. Thanks for finding it.


Cheers

[Rod_Filan]

All the parts appeared to be there ..

An offhanded statement, but just to be clear--in this 'nearest to completion we have' photo, I was forgetting that the small framework along the wall is the gondola of No.14 and the modified No.14


Cheers