Breguet's Pre 1914 ID Challenge #440

[Tork1945]

For your consideration.

Tork1945

Scoreboard at the start of Challenge #440:

86.40 Rbailey
82.60 aerohydro
52.95 Varese2002
40.20 Aquilius
31.50 Rod_Filan
29.45 richard B
**************
(those above this section must wait 24 hours before answering)
**************
23.30 Tork1945
9.40 Airarticles
9.00 Doc
8.50 Lodzermensch
7.70 ermeio
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.30 YavorD
6.30 AnYun
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
5.00 sobrien
5.35 Froggy
**************
(those immediately above this section must wait 12 hours before answering.)
**************
4.20 Wind In The Wires
3.30 berman
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sodium
2.60 Mattyboy
1.00 matthewk
1.00 Catfish
1.00 dhc2pilot
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 Tripehound Flyboy
0.20 EricGoedkoop

Previous challenges are here: Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge

The rules are:

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge.
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has received 5 (five) points, they belong to ROYALTY, and must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer. Once someone has achieved 25 (twentyfive) points, they must wait 24hrs after the original post before being able to post an answer.
10. In order to correctly identify the flying object, an answer must mention a characteristic of the design which has helped with its identification, or include a reference to a publication or website, which will confirm the attribution.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[Tork1945]

Hint 1:

Although the inventor / designer of this machine acquired a US patent for his invention this machine originates from Europe.

Tork1945

[aerohydro]

Well, my guess is that it's one of Karl Hipssich's flying machines.

At the top is the Challenge photo, and below is a (flipped) photo that comes from the 1913 "Jane's All The World's Aircraft". It's of the 1908 Hipssich tandem monoplane. He was listed as being from Austria.

In these two photos, note the similarity in the design of the flying machine, and also the similarity of the person who's holding onto it.

Here's a 1911 US patent that he had been granted for a flying machine. At the time, he was based in Bremen, Germany:

US Patent 986,002

More anon.

Cheers,
Paul

[aerohydro]

I've done some more searching, but have come up with very little. I've found a handful of references to Hipssich's 1908 flying machine, which is usually referred to as either a Drachenflieger or a Flugmaschine. However, that seems to be the extent of the coverage.

I've found nothing - online - that indicates that he'd built any other craft. Perhaps my search techniques are faulty. Despite the lack of found evidence, the more that I look at the Challenge photo, the more comfortable I am that it's a Hipssich design, even if Hipssich's own name might not be attached to it.

As with the 1908 design, it's definitely a tandem monoplane, but one which has a tighter, more rational execution. Note that it's a two-seater, and that the engine and propeller seem to be mounted behind the seats but ahead of the rear wing. Also note the wing-tip ailerons on the front wing. The photo seems to have been taken at an aviation meet. Supplying a date is difficult, but given the somewhat practical features of the Challenge machine, and the fact that a 'dated' Voisin-like biplane can be seen at the left of the photo, it might be from around 1910-1912.

Paul

[Rbailey]

From Keimel (Lufthfahrzeugbau in Ostrerreich), it is the Hipssich Drachenflieger II of 1910, a development of the I.

[Tork1945]

Excellent identification of this rare machine by Mr. Aerohydro. By the way I don't think your search techniques are faulty. There is literally very little available on Karl Hipssich and his invention(s) and what is available is in books which are copyrighted or in scanned old magazines which have not been indexed (no OCR). What complicates things further is of course sometimes the old German letters (Fraktur).

To give the history some flesh, this is what I could find.

Karl Hippsich (also given as Cäsare Hippsich) was a German inventor who lived in Vienna. He had an interest in aviation and invented and patented a flying machine (Drachenflieger) which was automatically stable. Next to the USA patent I could find patents in Great Britain Patent 1909/17668 Flying machine and Germany Patent 226932 Drachenflieger. Surely there will be comparable patents in France and Austro-hungary, but given the time I could not locate them. This is an instance of documents which are scanned but not indexed, just as the German one. In this case I was 'lucky' to find a reference in an old magazine to the number of the german patent which can be accessed.

The patents show a flying machine that 'in which by the special shape and arrangement of the planes the stability of the machine is ensured under all circumstances'.

Hipssich designed a real life full scale realization of his patent (looking differently, with a tandem wing and no swept up wing tips for instance). This started end 1908 / begin 1909 where the actual billing was done by the Vienna firm of Karl Köhler. The completion was long - some one and a half year. The machine was first exhibited in Vienna at Makart atelier. This is the picture which is given for instance in Jane's 1913. It shows the machine complete with tandem wings and two pusher propellers. Engine was a 45 hp Dutheil and Chalmers. Proudly painted on the side of the machine is the name HIPSSICH.

There is another picture of the machine at the same place but not completely finished. It gives in great the detail the construction of the propeller part. Look at the handles in front. In front of the machine stands proudly the inventor Mr. Karl Hipssich, with a bowler hat.

The flight tests that started beginning 1910 at the Vienna flying field Wiener Neustadt were not successful, so extensive modifications were done using as much of the original as possible.

Changes included the reduction of the propellers to one only, a pusher propeller fitted between the tandem wings. The fitting of ailerons (Querruder) at the wingtips of the front wing, dual seating and other changes. The machine was changed out of all recognition to the original. The re-building was done by the Daimler Werke.

The Challenge picture shows the machine at the Vienna flying field Wiener Neustadt at the beginning of October 1910. Again at right with the bowler hat is Mr. Karl Hipssich. At the left there is the pilot of the machine (Erich] Köhler who had no pilot license at that time. He acquired German No. 347 at January 10, 1913 at Breslau when flying a Rumpler Taube.

The easy way out to identify the machine is (as taken by Keimel) to differentiate with numbers (-I and -II). I would not do that and follow the contemporary 1910 text which identifies the machine as 'Der rekonstruierte Hipssichflieger' [The reconstructed Flyer of Karl Hippsich - October 1910].

Tork1945

[Tork1945]

Correct identification

The reconstructed Flyer of Karl Hippsich - October 1910 [Der rekonstruierte Hipssichflieger]


Scoreboard at the end of Challenge #440:

86.40 Rbailey
83.60 aerohydro
52.95 Varese2002
40.20 Aquilius
31.50 Rod_Filan
29.45 richard B
**************
(those above this section must wait 24 hours before answering)
**************
23.30 Tork1945
9.40 Airarticles
9.00 Doc
8.50 Lodzermensch
7.70 ermeio
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.30 YavorD
6.30 AnYun
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
5.00 sobrien
5.35 Froggy
**************
(those immediately above this section must wait 12 hours before answering.)
**************
4.20 Wind In The Wires
3.30 berman
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sodium
2.60 Mattyboy
1.00 matthewk
1.00 Catfish
1.00 dhc2pilot
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 Tripehound Flyboy
0.20 EricGoedkoop

#441 is in the hands of Mr. Aerohydro

[aerohydro]

Thanks, Tork1945, for providing such a detailed history of this obscure Flugmaschine.

Do you know if the final 1910 version of the Hipssichflieger ever succeeded in flying? Do you happen to have any photos showing it from a different angle?

Cheers,
Paul

[Tork1945]

Originally Posted by aerohydro

Thanks, Tork1945, for providing such a detailed history of this obscure Flugmaschine.

Do you know if the final 1910 version of the Hipssichflieger ever succeeded in flying? Do you happen to have any photos showing it from a different angle?

Cheers,
Paul

I will do some more research. Surely a possibility would be the Wiener Luftschiffer-Zeitung - Unabhängiges Fachblatt für Luftschiffahrt und Fliegekunst sowie die dazu gehörigen Wissenchaften und Gewerbe, herausgegeben von Victor Silberer. This Austro-hungarian (more Austrian) magazine was published during 1902 - 1914.

An article on 'Die Flugmaschine HIPSSICH' was published in Wiener Luftschiffer-Zeitung Jahrgang VII (1908) Nr.1 (January) p.35.

Full scans (unidexed) years of Wiener Luftschiffer-Zeitung are (from my place) only available in the scanned collection of the Polish Cracow aviation museum. They have scanned the volumes for the years 1910-1914, heavily marked. No indexing.

Wiener Luftschiffer-Zeitung 1910

Of course the volume for 1910 is most likely to yield any extra information about the Hipssich Flieger. The only way to find it is to look through the pages as there is no indexing.

Tork1945

[Tork1945]

The picture of the reconstructed Flyer of Karl Hippsich can be exactly defined regarding the date and the place.

On September 18, 1910 Kaiser Franz Joseph - then eighty years old - visited the Wiener-Neustadt flying field. There was an exhibition organized specially for the Kaiser. No less than twenty three (23 !) airplanes were exhibited in the open in two rows. The Kaiser talked with a lot of aviation pioneers as quoted in the Wiener Luftschiffer-Zeitung, including Ingenieur Hipssich .

For the record, the picture of the reconstructed Flyer of Karl Hippsich was taken at Wiener Neustadt on September 18, 1910.

Source: Wiener Luftschiffer-Zeitung Jahrgang IX (1910) 19 (1 October) pp.361 - 366

Tork1945