Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #459

[MattyBoy]

Ok, finally found one.



Scoreboard at the start of Challenge #459:

88.50 Rbailey
87.85 aerohydro
52.95 Varese2002
41.20 Aquilius
33.80 Rod_Filan
29.45 richard B
26.85 Tork1945
**************
(those above this section must wait 24 hours before answering)
**************
11.40 Airarticles
9.20 Doc
8.50 Lodzermensch
7.70 ermeio
7.30 matte_kudasai
7.30 YavorD
6.30 AnYun
6.00 Cruze
6.00 Flamingo
5.95 Froggy
5.00 sobrien
**************
(those immediately above this section must wait 12 hours before answering.)
**************
4.20 Wind In The Wires
3.60 Mattyboy
3.30 berman
3.00 joegertler
3.00 sodium
1.00 matthewk
1.00 Catfish
1.00 dhc2pilot
1.00 paolomiana
1.00 Tripehound Flyboy
0.20 EricGoedkoop

Previous challenges are here: Breguet's Pre-1914 Aircraft Challenge.

Quote:
The rules are:

1. The thread title must be "Breguet's Pre-1914 ID Challenge #......".
2. The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning of each thread, so that we know where we are. The score board and the correct answer to the challenge must also be placed at end of each thread.
3. The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....).
4. There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built.
5. Machines which exist only as 'paper', that is absolutely no material has been cut to construct it, are excluded from this ID Challenge.
6. The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion).
7. Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified.
8. If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
9. Once someone has received 5 (five) points, they belong to ROYALTY, and must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer. Once someone has achieved 25 (twentyfive) points, they must wait 24hrs after the original post before being able to post an answer.
10. In order to correctly identify the flying object, an answer must mention a characteristic of the design which has helped with its identification, or include a reference to a publication or website, which will confirm the attribution.
11. The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
12. If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
13. The final arbitrator in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.

[aerohydro]

Hello All,

This is a French machine - the Auffm-Ordt monoplane. There seems to be some uncertainty as to its date. The Flying Machines website, quoting Opdyke, indicates it's 1908, but the Model Flight website dates it to 1910.

Flying Machines - 1908 Auffm-Ordt monoplane

Modelflight - 1910 Flying Machines

Paul

[Tork1945]

This is the monoplane of 1908 designed by Clément Auffm-Ordt (Swiss born) and built in the factory of the Frères Voisin. This monoplane had another solution to lateral stability, where the wing could be tilted as a whole, while a small middle part could be tilted separately.

The pilot was seated underneath the wing in the way of for instance the Santos-Dumont Demoiselle.

More information can be found here.

On some period postcards of this machine you find the name misspelled as Auffin-Ordt.

Tork1945

[Rod_Filan]

This postcard claims the machine was powered by a 35 hp Esnault-Pelterie motor, and (presumably) piloted by Robert Esnault-Pelterie himself. A photo in the archive of Getty Images has the Auffin-Ordt [sic] dated to April 23, 1908.

A second machine, very similar but larger and with a dual rudder that I noticed, arrived sometime the following year.


A day late and a dollar short...
Cheers

[Rod_Filan]

Originally Posted by aerohydro

There seems to be some uncertainty as to its date. The Flying Machines website, quoting Opdyke, indicates it's 1908, but the Model Flight website dates it to 1910.

Paul, you'll notice that the Model Flight site has it under 1908 and 1910. Same photo...obviously 1910 is a publishing error on their part. The 1909 machine I mentioned above (linked here) is evidently also from Opdycke's FABTGW.


Cheers

[Tork1945]

Originally Posted by aerohydro

There seems to be some uncertainty as to its date. The Flying Machines website, quoting Opdyke, indicates it's 1908, but the Model Flight website dates it to 1910.
l

There is no uncertainty about the date of the machine, the Model Flight website is simply wrong. The machine was described shortly in L'Aérophile Volume 16 (1908) 11 (1 June) p.210

The article starts with the statement that preliminary tests started at the airfield at Buc on April 23, 1908.

Tork1945

[Rod_Filan]

And, I had just found the 3rd photo as published in your article Tork. It was hiding with the REP photos. Smallish, but it does give by far the best vantage point for viewing. Pioneer of the Air postcard by C.M. (with the correct spelling this time).

Cheers

[aerohydro]

Paul, you'll notice that the Model Flight site has it under 1908 and 1910. Same photo...obviously 1910 is a publishing error on their part.

It's funny that the website uses the same image for both years' listings, even through they're different prints, sourced from different locations. In each case, the craft is listed as the Auffin-Ordt [sic], so at least there is some consistency happening.

Paul

[Rod_Filan]

Interestingly I kept another postcard in the REP file...again, a 7 cyl. R.E.P. engine; this time the Kapferer tandem monoplane at Buc.

J. Hauser (J.H.) series # 1011. Incorrectly described as a Rene Esnault Pelterie 35 hp.



Cheers

[Tork1945]

The site of Model Flight on early aviation has lots of errors when you look more closely, even in the very sparse form presented.

The Russian hacker-site has no problem at all as they copied just everything photos and text from the works of Opdycke, they have added or deleted nothing.

Here are two other contemporary pictures of the Auffm-Ordt monoplane (1908) which show clearly the seating of the pilot and the 7-cylinder R.E.P. engine (35 hp). Both were made at the time by the great French photographer Louis Branger. We would be very much worse today in contemporary photographs if he had done his job less consciously. Seems to be about around everywhere.

Look that the postcard misinterpretes the difficult name again (Auffin-Ordt). This is obviously because the name is not French but Suisse (Auffm-Ordt has some German in it as 'Auf den Ort'). It may still be logical to call this a French machine as it was built by a French firm (Frères Voisin).

Unfortunately I was not able to find a patent for the wing construction, maybe there but not found.

Tork1945