DR-1 (Sands): Builders Group - Page 199

CORVUS · 17 January 2008, 08:05 AM

Hi Dogtail2,

I had considered that but my problem at this time is storage. I live in a very humid enviornment and I'm a slow builder. I'm worried that the tube will rust up on me before I can get to it. I don't want to find myself spending time sandblasting or trying to remove corrosion. My solution is to buy the tubing for the assembly, construct and fiinsh it , then move on to the next piece. I realize it will cost me more in the end but paid for over a couple to three years the bite won't seem as severe.

Lou

PeterFokDVII · 17 January 2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Lamboley

Hi Dogtail2,

I had considered that but my problem at this time is storage. I live in a very humid enviornment and I'm a slow builder. I'm worried that the tube will rust up on me before I can get to it. I don't want to find myself spending time sandblasting or trying to remove corrosion. My solution is to buy the tubing for the assembly, construct and fiinsh it , then move on to the next piece. I realize it will cost me more in the end but paid for over a couple to three years the bite won't seem as severe.

Lou

Hi Lou,

I've been building slowly too, I had a "project standstill" for a while. But all you need to do, (I live in a very humid environment too) is rub a light coating of machine oil or a WD-40 type of preservative (just make sure it does not contain silicone or Teflon) onto the tubing. Then I bought some PVC tubing (from 3" OD to 6" OD) with end caps. The tubing will stay pristine almost indefinitely.

When you go to weld, just wipe off the oil with the correct solvent for the oil you used, with a final wipe or two with clean rags and a strong solvent like toluene or acetone. You don't have to go quite as crazy with the final cleaning steps (but I usually do anyway) if you Oxy/Acet weld, because you can preheat a little more than usual and bring to the surface and burn off any remaining oil residue, before you start to weld. (Unless the metal was heavily pitted or rusted, in which case you have to remove the rust and clean out the pits with more aggressive cleaning).

If you TIG weld it, you have to depend on just the cleaning to remove all the oil contaminants.

.................................................. ..Pete

CORVUS · 17 January 2008, 06:46 PM

Hi PeterFokDVII,

I'm here in Tampa. That's a great idea using the PVC pipe. What I've been using to protect the outside of the steel tube is a product called Corrosion Sheild. It leaves a waxy surface but you can clean it off with just about any petroleum product. Works great. I haven't started on anything yet. Still messing with this length of tubing issue. I feel like I'm bartering. First they say 8' then I say 9' and now they come back with 8' 6" . I'll call Aircraft Spruce and see what their doing.

I was messing around with the wing ribs. I've been studying the Ron Sands drawings and the Walt Redfern drawings.
I noticed that Walt Redfern uses the Gottingen 298 wing rib. I have a book on wing rib profiles so I looked through it and low and behold there it was. As it turns out it's the wing rib from a Fokker Triplane that was tested in 1918. Very clearly states it. Another interesting thing is the method that Redfern uses regarding rib construction and what Sands calls for. Sands uses two segments of the rib attached with the cap strips and Redfern uses a complete rib with a hole cut out for the spar. What really got my attention was the incredibly complex way Sands has you make up all these contoured infill segments that go under the cap strips between them and the spar. These inserts are the same width as the cap strip and are supposed to go in the top and bottom of all the ribs. YIKES ! Redfern doesn't show any special consideration and apparently you just glue the web of the rib to the top of the spar. So I pulled out my flight magazines of the D-7 and the Triplane. From what I could tell from those drawings there is a wedge that's glued to the sides of the cap strips and the rear part of the top of the spar on the Triplane. On the D-7 , since the spars are not as wide the wedge spans the complete width of the D-7 spar. Not sure whether to go with two cap strips rather than one that's grooved. Although Sands does make a point of noting that the groove is filled where it spans the spar. I'm going to use the Redfern method regarding the ribs and probably use his rib profile and glue a wedge on the top and bottom as per the original Fokker method. To be honest with you, and based on the need for speed, I can't see Fokker making up those wings using two pieces for each rib. Me thinks he would have fired Platz.

Lou

PeterFokDVII · 17 January 2008, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis Lamboley

Hi PeterFokDVII,

I'm here in Tampa. That's a great idea using the PVC pipe. What I've been using to protect the outside of the steel tube is a product called Corrosion Sheild. It leaves a waxy surface but you can clean it off with just about any petroleum product. Works great. I haven't started on anything yet. Still messing with this length of tubing issue. I feel like I'm bartering. First they say 8' then I say 9' and now they come back with 8' 6" . I'll call Aircraft Spruce and see what their doing.

Lou

Hi Lou,

Have you checked with Dillsburg Aero? I got longer lengths from them, they came freight too, but they may have a cheaper freight company they deal with............Here's an article about them......

Charlie Vogelsong and Dillsburg Aero

"Dillsburg Aero has no Website but usually has the very best prices on 4130 Steel Tubing and Sheet"
Phone # 717-432-4589 ask for Charlie Vogelsong (or his son)
114 Sawmill Rd.
Dillsburg, Pa

I don't know if the above # is still current, but AT&T info would have it.

PS: At least one person on this forum has had problems with Mr. Vogelsong, but even though he can be gruff, I've never had a problem. Once I received a length of streamlined tubing that was badly and deeply scratched. Over the phone, he appologized and quickly offered to send another piece at no charge. He used to send my orders out without payment up front, and would say, "just send me the check".
.............................................Pete

CORVUS · 19 January 2008, 12:04 PM

Hi,

I emailed Ron Sands Jr. to see if he had any hinges he was selling and he was going to look into it. His father used to sell them. Does anyone know of a source for these.

Thanks

Lou

Dogtail2 · 19 January 2008, 12:34 PM

Try Franzkait for hinges.

Jeff Brooks · 19 January 2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CORVUS

Hi,

I emailed Ron Sands Jr. to see if he had any hinges he was selling and he was going to look into it. His father used to sell them. Does anyone know of a source for these.

Thanks

Lou

Try Upilot from the resource list above ... He has been very successful making many parts for me. send him the drawings.

CORVUS · 20 January 2008, 07:17 AM

Hi Jeff,

Thanks,

I'd like to see if Roger Freeman has those hinges in his package. I'd also like to see some photo's of a typical package he sells. Sounds like a great deal.

Regarding those Sands hinges. I was looking at the Flight Magazine reprint and they show those same type hinges with the flange. Maybe someone out there can explain to me how those are made. The drawings call for the flange and they show a rolled edge on the inside. There's nothing said about welding the two pieces together. Is anyone else using those type ? Redfern uses a simple strap type hinge. Easy to make.

I haven't had a chance to read all the 62,000 posts on this thread. Maybe this has already been covered. Just thought I'd ask.

I also noiced something odd regarding the top wing and the inboard Aileron hinge. I think the hinge needs to be moved outboard of the welded reinforcing rod. The rod is shown being welded to the hinge strap. The wood block would have to be a bit wider. Just thought I'd mention it. I've attached a photo.

I also read one of the posts that said the bottom longeron needs to be as long as the top longeron to receive the cowl ring. The cowl ring is not welded to the bottom longeron. It is welded to the flared assembly. I realize I haven't done any actual work yet and some might be saying who does he think he is, but I've been doing drawings of the D-VIII for a number of years and am some what familiar with how they go together.

I think I've got this tubing purchase issue resolved and their sending it on. Then I can finally get started and you will see I'm not full of hot air.

Lou

Dogtail2 · 20 January 2008, 09:20 AM

Louis

See page 110 for discussion on hinges.

There are photos of the Freeman metal kit on page 137. I didnt use it as Id already made most of the parts ,but it looks good. My only reservation is that as the holes are already there, the bending will have to be very accurate or they wont line up.

The cowl ring is not welded to the lower longeron.

The inboard aileron hinge is incorrectly drawn. I only spotted this after making the rest, so will make alternative arrangements for strapping in this area. Moving the aileron hinge inboard slightly would be better.

Gintaras · 20 January 2008, 09:26 AM

hinge must be 1/2 inch longer and no holes .