DR-1 (Sands): Builders Group - Page 20

Jim Bruton · 17 November 2004, 05:56 AM

...and there are a few answers to your question, but some are using Lycoming opposed cylinder engines, and some are considering radials. I don't of anyone in this group who is seriously considering a rotary, tho i could be wrong. Radials- with each passing year, parts are harder to find and so become more expensive to purchase, or to make from scratch. The only Radial engines I am considering would be the one from Rotex (110hp) or possibly the 125hp one from HCI. As I am trying to fly by summer 2006, I believe that both these engines will have more user reports by then and I can more or less make the right choice at the last minute. I would love to have a Warner 145hp or 165hp, but I think it is more realistic to go with either the modern radial, or if you have to, a modern opposed cylinder engine.

Are you building a DR-1? What type of engine are you considering?

Fokker210 · 17 November 2004, 09:15 AM

Franzkait,
At the moment, I am planning to use a 4 cylinder Lycoming as this would allow me, with a little extra care, to use the cowl facepiece without the associated cooling problems when trying to use the cowl face with radials. IMHO, triplanes flying without the cowl face just don't look right.

Like Jim Bruton says, I am also interested in in seeing how things go with the Rotecs and HCI's - Nothing is set in stone yet and I do want to keep my options open for the time being but I am leaning towards the lycoming for now. Reliability, ease of maintenance, etc. will all be factors in my final decision. I am still a long way from hanging anything out front so we'll have to wait and see !

Posts like this must make folks like Achim and Wolfenbill cringe...

AchimEngels · 17 November 2004, 09:28 AM

Fokker210,

not really!

If I could, I would produce rotaries for folks like you at a reliable price, just to have more "authentic" rotary powered triplanes around.

But it may be of interest to you that we have all the drawings for the american license built "Le Rhóne" 9-Cylinder 110 PS rotaries. As a matter of fact Dirk Bende (the engine specialist who restored our (!Wulffo´s!) original Daimler D.IIIa engine) and another folk as well as me are discussing whether the reproduction of such a type of engine could be handled. But this for sure is a future project if anything.

However, I am planning on doing a triplane after the two D.VII´s are finished and a rebuilt engine for the flying of this plane would do something for advertising the engine......

Well....dreams are to be realised, don´t you agree?

But for now I am busy with the biplanes.

Achim

Jim Bruton · 17 November 2004, 09:37 AM

Achim,

If you decide to go down this path, and can indeed produce these at a reasonable price, I am sure that you will gain more admiring fans than you already have. As I look at http://www.lerhoneauburn.com - a site that offers parts, I would have to guess that a complete engine from them would be somewhere around 30,000- $40,000. That's way out of my league! Do you have any guess as to what you might charge for the reincarnate LeRhone? I would be very interested ...

Fokker210 · 17 November 2004, 09:43 AM

Achim,
I wish I could achieve the level of authentic detail that you do - again I'm envious !

It would be great to fly with a rotary, original or otherwise, but I believe I am in the wrong tax bracket for that ! I often hear of people switching more modern engines for originals after they have accumulated some flight time in the planes. Sounds like a good idea to me - I would hate to think of even attempting to fly this thing for the first time with an original rotary. Considering I have zero hours experience with that type of engine, the pucker factor would be extremely high !

franzkait · 17 November 2004, 09:58 AM

I think abaut building a Dr1 for jears. If I go for ,for shure it must be a Oberursel. If not a Warner 145 or Siemens SH14. All this new engines like Rotec do not have the power for a Dr1.

pete51577 · 17 November 2004, 11:09 AM

Hi all,
I've been following this forum for awhile, and figured I'd toss out a couple of things regarding engines:
1) Rotec Radials has posted plans for a new engine in their Nov. 2004 newsletter on their website. They are planning a 9 cylinder, 125HP engine. Its in the design phase now. They have a great drawing of it up as well. Thought that may be of interest to you guys, as the 110HP has been regarded as a tad underpowered for a proper Dr. 1.
2) Not related to the Dr.1 specifically, but along the alternative engines line: The lastest issue of WW1 Aero has an article about a guy who is developing a straight-six Chevy 292 as a mercedes alternative. Swinging a huge prop at the proper torque, etc. is the goal. Seems to be progressing very well. This guy postulated his ideas many years ago in the same magazine, and is not actually doing it. Tests so far have been positive.
So, it looks like there is at least some hope for those of us who want authenticity, reliablity, and affordability!! SOME hope.
Thanks for the great forum guys!!
Pete

Jim Bruton · 17 November 2004, 11:43 AM

Glad to see the pot getting stirred up- this is how we figure things out here!

Pete, I am really happy to hear about the plans for the 125hp Rotec- I had honestly wondered about the necessary power of the 110hp.

http://www.rotecradialengines.com/ne...newsletter.htm

Here is a quick breakdown on 9 cylinder Rotec Radial:
Price (at least for initial investors) = $18,750USD
Diameter = 850mm (33.46")
Depth the same as the R2800 = 640mm (25.2")
Modified prop hub to accommodate the additional power and torque.
Weight to be determined but calculations show that the weight will fall between 125Kg and 135Kg
HP may be 150+HP (yet to be determined)
Will have a 3:2 PSRU for additional torque (resulting in 150+HP of usable power when compared to the output of a "Flat" engine).

AchimEngels · 17 November 2004, 11:54 AM

Fokker210,

the level of authenticity is up to you!

I have learned that this is not so much a issue of money, but of devotion and time.

The engine, I see, of course, is a major point to most out there, but all other things can be done most authentic when spending more time on research and development of techniques in the way of making.

This is - by the way - one reason for me creating the movie clip series of small "Educational Movies" that show how they have done it back then. In most cases this can be replicated very easily.

Achim

Fokker210 · 17 November 2004, 12:18 PM

Achim,
I do agree - but I do believe that most builders of this type of plane do not lack the devotion, but more the time and money. When you start contemplating things such as original engines, instruments, guns, etc., an already expensive project can quickly become astronomical ! That is one reason why we find the work you are doing so fascinating !