DR-1 (Sands): Builders Group

[CodyPaul]

Its been quite a while since I visited Rotecs site. The last time I did, however, they stated that the 110hp motor was certified for a (I believe) 100 inch prop. A big one whatever the size anyway. It would certainly improve the looks of a WW I repro. If you look at their site you should be able to find the info on the prop.

[Jim Bruton]

This just in from the EAA:

New Radial Engine Planned for Homebuilts
Gesoco Industries of Swanton, Vermont, and S.C. Motorstar of Bacau, Romania, have developed a new radial engine design for experimental homebuilt aircraft. The five-cylinder R-263 is planned for three different variants, 125-, 150- or 180-horsepower. The basic engine will be a naturally aspirated five-cylinder radial weighing in at about 220 lbs with accessories. The 33-inch diameter, 27-inch long air-cooled engine will feature electric start, a 35-amp alternator, a throttle body injection system and dual ignition. Designer Viorel Andries is the chief designer at S.C. Motorstar, producers of the M-14P engine. Plans are to have a display engine at Sun ’n Fun 2005, with a flying example at Oshkosh. Projected price is about $18,000 including the accessories and warranty. For more information, visit www.gesoco.com, or call 802-868-5633.

Kind of blends a little of what each of us have been talking about. I know it is only 5 cylinders instead of the Rotec's (and Oberusel's) 9, but it is another radial option for almost the same price as the projected Rotec 3600. I think the timed launch of both engines is almost on target for many of the builders here.

EAA recommends this site to keep an online log of your build- this helpful to anyone?

http://www.expercraft.com/

[Jim Bruton]

This email just in from Jim @ Rotec (not Jim Bruton!).

Any Takers?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotec Engineering [mailto:roteceng@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:51 PM
To: 'Bruton, Jim'
Subject: RE: Interest in your R3600


Hi Jim,

If a DR1 and R2800 is a great combination the DR1 coupling to a R3600 would be an absolute knockout!

The reason we're looking at a sort of "pay as you go" approach is that we didn't want to go down the R3600 path until we fully established the R2800 and started to return on the huge capital investment that it took to get the R2800 going.

We got talked into the R3600 about a year ago and had the completed a set of plans along with engineering calculations (stress etc) in about 7 months. At that point we quite frankly sat on them with a reluctance of going down the path of being poor again by financing another project.

On a suggestion of 2 clients we struck a compromise - they would help by paying on a 25%:25%:50% plan. Though by no means self funding its a lot better than going to see our bank manager for a huge lump of cash at huge interest rates. So it was that the plan took shape and we estimated that it would take 5 such clients (backers if you wish) to ease the pain ... In return the 5 clients would gain a huge advantage of extended warranty and unlimited factory support. On top of that they would get the engine pegged at a price of $18750USD (we estimate the final retail price will be above slightly above $20,000USD).

More on the payment plan and timing along with what's in it for both parties:-

We feel the whole production process will probably be in the order of 5-6 months making the 5 R3600 engines due for release in May of 2005 (we've added 2 months to the normal production cycle for contingencies and testing).

The deposits are due between now and Dec 2004 - there are 2 commitments already and a possible 4 others. Once we hit 5 that'll be it and the order book will close.

The second payment will be sought at or beyond the 50% mark of the production run. That makes payment due, if all falls within schedule, on the second 25% at about March.

One engine of the 5 will be assembled and test run after which it'll be stripped down, wear evaluated etc any mods, fine tuning will be done and a re-test will be done (a re-strip and rebuild may also be done etc...)

Only when our tech boys are satisfied will the engine be released. As a consequence delays may occur if adjustments to this that or the other are required.

The Warranty on these 5 engines will be extended to 2 years and can be varied, if a clients project is at the early stages, to commence when the engine is mounted. We will however give priority to any client that has a project under way - the more advanced the frame construction the higher will be our priority.

Factory tech support on all engine related issues would be indefinite for this batch of 5 R3600's.

That's about it in a nutshell.

Please feel free to forward this email to any parties that might want to seriously look at getting involved.

I hope you, and maybe the others that you mention might just get excited enough to commit to such a plan with benefits for both parties.

Looking forward to further comments or questions. Or maybe a commitment as we'd love to have a DR1 to showcase this new engine.

Kindest Regards

Rotec

[franzkait]

How many people need a Radial for a Dr 1 ? And how original must this engine be ?
A 5 cylinder engine with more then 100 hp will shake a Dr1 apart.

[Jim Bruton]

i don't get your reasoning but am happy to hear your logic.

[Jim Bruton]

nice price of US$10,500! http://www.gesoco.com/engines/m14d.html

[franzkait]

OK. look how mutch a 1 cylinder shake . More cylinders les vibration. A 4 cylinder car engine shakes a lot but you do not realy feel it becurse the engine is in a heavy steel construction on 4 big weels. Radials have a special problem. Only the master rod cylinder has a good timing. All cylinders at the left side have 10 to 20 degrees wrong timing for spark and valve.If the left side cylinders have 10 to 20 degrees bevor TDC
the right side cylinders have have 10 to 20 degrees after TDC. So not 2 cylinders have the same timing. Engines like the Oberursel do not have this problem . Oberursel have a different con rod system.

[worldcrusier]

Well,
I think that I remember that the 7 cylinder 220 hp continentals magnetos take the timing problem in to account and are actually manufactured with the necessary timing corrections. I've been looking seriously at the russian m-14d. it's heavier than the LeRhone but the use of light weight replica machine guns and no heavy ammo appears to compensate. Also you could swing a full size propellor at 1400 rpm and still get 120 to 13o hp.

[Jim Bruton]

and the $10,500 price tag ain't bad either!

[franzkait]

guns and ammo, are in the center of gravity, but the engine is in front. It is not possible to use a m14 in a Dr1. Orango in LA has a 220 Conti in his Dr1 ask him how his aircraft flys.