DR-1 (Sands): Builders Group

GoldenAge · 17 November 2009, 06:02 PM

Thanks Guys,
I will look back to find the seatbelt details.

Great thoughts on the brass tank, that is what I was looking for. I will look into these problems.

Thanks again,
Paul

US95Damiani · 18 November 2009, 06:48 AM

Since this is to be a LeRhone powered airplane, I think to run 100 LL in it would be a bad idea. I'm sure with the low compression and RPM of this engine the Lead in 100LL would cause many issues.

John McKenzie · 18 November 2009, 12:48 PM

Hi .. Suitable temper Brass works well for forming of radiator tanks.
Also , for petrol tanks ,is the posability to use Tinned Steel *, Riveted with tinned copper rivets and sweated / soldered joints . All tanks which are soldered must afterwards be thouroughly washed in hot water / soda solution and thoroughly rinsed and dried .

JM
*...Depends what you think the original is made from !

ghall · 18 November 2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John McKenzie

Hi .. Suitable temper Brass works well for forming of radiator tanks.
Also , for petrol tanks ,is the posability to use Tinned Steel *, Riveted with tinned copper rivets and sweated / soldered joints . All tanks which are soldered must afterwards be thouroughly washed in hot water / soda solution and thoroughly rinsed and dried .

JM
*...Depends what you think the original is made from !

John,
Where does one find tinned steel and rivets? sounds like the route I'm going to take.

Greg Hall

womenfly2 · 19 November 2009, 04:35 AM

What your are looking for is Terne-coated Steel: Terne is an alloy coating of lead and tin used to cover steel, in the ratio of 20% tin and 80% lead.

Terne-coated steel is also known as terne-metal and often referred to as "tin".
You may want to check with a roofing supply store for terne-coated steel.

Edgcomb Metals Company is one that has this too. I will also add its hard to find.

I believe somewhere here on the forum there is a thread about Terne steel.

Rivets you can find at Hanson Rivet Company.

Cheers,
WF2

US95Damiani · 19 November 2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by womenfly2

What your are looking for is Terne-coated Steel: Terne is an alloy coating of lead and tin used to cover steel, in the ratio of 20% tin and 80% lead.

Terne-coated steel is also known as terne-metal and often referred to as "tin".
You may want to check with a roofing supply store for terne-coated steel.

Edgcomb Metals Company is one that has this too. I will also add its hard to find.

I believe somewhere here on the forum there is a thread about Terne steel.

Rivets you can find at Hanson Rivet Company.

Cheers,
WF2

You mean Terneplate?
The Jenny Tank is made from this. (original)

womenfly2 · 19 November 2009, 07:10 PM

Well that would mean Tin/Lead Plate, pretty soft stuff in thin sheets. In the industry it is tin/lead plated steel, hence the correct term is Terne-coated steel, but yes, terneplate works too.

Cheers.
WF2

GoldenAge · 19 November 2009, 07:17 PM

Hi Gang,
The material is Terneplate (ternplate, not sure the spelling) it is a tin product with a lot of lead. It forms very well and solders even better. It was what most American built aircraft fuel tanks were made of in the 20s and 30s. I have built tanks from this material and it is wonderful to work with, if you can find it. It will rust. I believe the Fokker tanks were brass or similar. I have been working on locating brass large enough to build a tank from. It is very expensive to purchase but the flip side is an aluminum tank that is very expensive to weld. Unfortunately I do not weld aluminum and I am weighing the material cost vs. labor. I built the radiator on our Jenny from brass, it also forms well and solders well.

Okay now for a stupid question. I am not a gun guy. I have been trying to study the Spandau and not finding great information. On the triplane installation how do the spent shells get overboard? How do they exit the gun and how are they directed from the left and right guns? I know they go out the bottom of the guns somehow. The one Spandau at Udvar hazy has a tube that looks like it directs the spent shells forward? I understand the belt chute and the feed chute. Help?

Thanks,
Paul

tengew · 21 November 2009, 07:48 AM

i might be wrong but thats what the second ammo box is for they eject in to it
front one feeds the guns and the rear takes the spent shells

Jeff Brooks · 21 November 2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tengew

i might be wrong but thats what the second ammo box is for they eject in to it
front one feeds the guns and the rear takes the spent shells

Close, the rear ammo box FEEDS, as this side has the ammo chutes that go to the right side of the gun. The front box has no ammo chute on it, and there is either a tube or chute that drops the empty cartridges from the bottom of the gun into the front box. There is also a tube on the left side of the Spandau that the webbed belt comes out of and is dropped into the front box. In those days, the ammo was loose, and the mechanic has to put the bullets into the belt by hand. So loosing these web belts could be a waste of resources.

There is a story in Rickenbacker’s autobiography about how he made a template for his mechanic to use when he put the bullets in the belt. Because the guns were hand made, and the shells were not always the same size, this template made sure they were compatible, and Eddie would have fewer jams.