Pfalz DIIIa Plans again!

[Scottie]

Hello again,

This topic raises it's head from time to time so I thought I would ask it again.

Sometime during 1918, Flight magazine, published some 3 view structural drawings plus some detail views of components, as installed in a captured Pfalz DIII.

http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoGall....cfm?AlbumID=74

The drawings were done by Sidney Camm (designer of Hawker Hurricane), according to the annotation on the drawings.



My question now is do these drawings still exist, along with a full collection of the entire evaluation of this aircraft, and if so where are they held?


If anyone can direct me to the most likely source I would be most interested to hear from you.

Are original drawings held by the Pfalz firm in Germany?



Thanks for your help.

[Patrick]

I believe that I have the entire Flight article (in German, though) from Achim Engle's Web site -- I'll have to check when I get home. If you'll email me, I'll send you what I have.

I don't recall a few of the plans you show from the Flight article though but they are interesting because they clearly show the mounting of the seat. This is a detail I've been researching for a while because it's often shown wrong. The Figure 1 view seems to match what I've been able to determine from pictures and other plans -- that the seat was mounted on rails attached to two wooden half-height structural formers.

I too would appreciate any Pfalz D.III/D.IIIa plans that anyone might have since I am currently building a 3D model of this plane on my computer.

[fltmech]

Since I am the one that posted the drawings at mykitplane. The drawings come fram several articles in Flight, they available at WW1 Aero. I spoke to Leo,at WW1 Aero, a couple of years ago. He felt that drawings by William wylan ( Air Age media, RC Store) the side view of the D-111 were not accurate. I don't have this set, so can't compare them to those in the Flight articles. According to Leo most people try to use a curve for the fuselarge, that is close to that of an airfoil, making the side view inaccurate.
If anyone locates a set of drawings of the Pfalz D111/D111a, please post the info here at the forume.

[Patrick]

. . . drawings by William wylan ( Air Age media, RC Store) the side view of the D-111 were not accurate.

I've got the Wylam drawings -- they were done back in the late '40s & have inaccuracies. The Pfalz D.III nose is the error most often mentioned (it's got a pronounced "chin" instead of the correct tapered shape); there are also problems with the cockpit formers, seat mounting & some other minor things I don't remember off the top of my head. When I look at Wylam's drawings, I get the sense that he wasn't trying to provide the exact measurements of the plane so much as he was trying to provide enough detail so that someone could build a fairly accurate model.

I have never seen a set of original Pfalz engineering drawings which makes me wonder if they were lost entirely in the intervening years. Achim Engle has mentioned that he has never seen these kinds of drawings for the D.III/IIIa either. He also mentioned that the Technical Museum at Speyer is located in one of the old Pfalz factory buildings. I wonder if anyone in Speyer maintains an archive of the old company records?

[Scottie]

Patrick,

The aircraft was obviously thoroughly evluated by the RFC/RAF and to the extent that drawings were made.

I will try to get hold of someone at the RAF Museum to find out if these would have been placed into an archive somewhere.

Another possibility is the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough.

I used to work there several years ago, and a current work colleague tells me that there is or was a library there which may be of help.

I thought I would try this forum first in case anyone from these institutions visits here and can answer our question?

It would be great if original drawings could be found rather than have to reverse engineer.

[Patrick]

Scottie, please do post again here if your archive/library search turns up anything. There's that often-printed picture of the 1918 exhibit in the Agricultural Hall showing a Pfalz D.IIIa with half it's plywood skin stripped away -- so the construction details were obviously examined in great detail. It would be a huge contribution to the historical record if some new, original drawings came to light.

thx!

[Scottie]

Patrick,

I Certainly will, unfortunately I am back at work tomorrow so it may be a while before I get time again to follow through. Stay tuned.

[CodyPaul]

An online search of the PRO resulted in quite a few hits. The most likely results were:

AIR 10/414 Report on the "PFALZ" Biplane, Type D.XV 1920
AIR 10/464 Report on the "PFALZ" Single-Seater 1918
AIR 10/480 Report on the "PFALZ", Type DXII Single-Seater Fighter 1918
AIR 1/706/27/10/653 Report on the Pfalz single seater fighter. 1918 Oct.
AIR 1/1977/204/273/59 Report on German aircraft: `Pfalz' fighter. 1918 July
AIR 1/1977/204/273/60 Report on German aircraft: `Pfalz' scout. 1918 Sept. - Oct.
AIR 1/2426/305/29/464 A.P.464: report on the PFALZ-type DX11-single seater fighter.

AVIA 6/2826 Doped fabric from Pfalz Scout aircraft 1918
AVIA 6/2836 Doped fabric from Pfalz Scout G.141 aircraft 1918


Don't know if any of that actually helps or not, but its a start.

[franzkait]

Hello, Pfalz in Germany has the drawings.

[Scottie]

Franzkait,

Thanks- do you have a contact at Pfalz whom i could deal with on this matter?

Thanks

Scottie