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Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > WWI Aviation > Aircraft > Replica Aircraft


Replica Aircraft Topics related to the construction of WWI replica aircraft

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Old 25 August 2005, 09:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Continental 670 Radial Engine

Hi,

I wanted a second opinion regarding the purchase price of a Continental 7 cylinder radial engine. It has 0 hours since it's last major overhaul and it comes with a spare engine as well. The inside of the cylinders have been chromed. It used to belong to the Navy. The asking price is $4000. Does this sound like a good deal, a typical deal, or a bad deal. It sounds good to me but I just wanted to know if I was being a bit to anxious.
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Old 25 August 2005, 12:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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From the Rhinebeck website:


Quote:
Country: Detroit, Michigan,
USA
Year: 1934
Horsepower: 210-240
R.P.M.: 2200
Weight: 415
Displacement: 668 cu. in.
Configuration: 7 cylinder radial, air cooled
Used in: Stearman PT-17, Waco UPF-7, N3N

Originating in the mid-thirties, the W-670 was updated through the Second World War and was widely used in primary training aircraft of the U.S. military. In the post-war years many were used in crop-dusters. A slightly different version of the W-670 was developed for use in tanks.
It might be a LITTLE heavy for most WWI replicas, but maybe not.

For example the information I have puts the LeRhone 110 at 330#, so it is 85# heavier. That MIGHT, however, not be a bad thing, given the larger size/weight of todays pilots. It might actually help the balance of some replicas.

If that is an engine in good condition (you did say 0 SMOH!) then it sounds like a heck of a good buy to me, no matter what your intended purpose. For example, that engine on a Fokker DVIII replica would be a REALLY great sportplane... although you might have to beef up the wing a little! (Then again, maybe not, since you aren't carrying the armament that it was.) Or how about one of those Pup replicas from Culp? This engine would be every bit as good as those Russian M14P radials.

What the Rhinebeck info doesn't mention is that versions of these were also used on AG planes (cropdusters) so they aren't exactly rare. That is GOOD, you can get parts.

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Old 25 August 2005, 01:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
For example, that engine on a Fokker DVIII replica would be a REALLY great sportplane... although you might have to beef up the wing a little! (Then again, maybe not, since you aren't carrying the armament that it was.)
I think Ron and Vince Argainbright's D.VIII, which was Frank Ryder's flagship at Aerodrome '92 is using the same engine, and they didn't beef up the wing (as far as I know!) Writer disavows any knowledge of structural design on Fokkers, Sopwiths or even models.
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Old 25 August 2005, 01:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks all for responding. I have done a small bit of research on radial engines. I'm glad to hear back from people who know something about them too.
There are a few radials that are about the right weight and horsepower that have been used on these WWI replicas. Rotaries were quite heavy and I've been told that if you use a Lycoming 320 you have to add about 100 pounds to the nose of the Triplane and the DVIII. I'm going to go for it. It's going into a Fokker Triplane. There are some in New Zealand and I'm sure one of those is using a 220 Continental. By the way those Triplanes in New Zealand look great. They did a masterful job of creating an illusion of a short shallow cowling.
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Old 25 August 2005, 02:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Lamboley
By the way those Triplanes in New Zealand look great. They did a masterful job of creating an illusion of a short shallow cowling.
Yeah, they certainly did a good job on their color schemes! And one of them made the cover of Over the Front not too long ago...
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Old 25 August 2005, 02:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hello Louis,
The great War Flying Museuem uses a 670 in their Sopwith 1 1/2 strutter with great success. When it comes to the Continental engine, there are several variants including tank and landing craft. In these configurations the engine was lying on it's back (side?) with the 'prop' hub end facing up. You will find variations in accessories etc., but nothing serious.
Regarding the SMOH, the question is when was the overhaul. Prudence would dictate a tear down for visual inspection. I am aware of a recent multicylinder failure with a 'tank' engine in an aeroplane. The cause was no gap on the piston rings. This was supposedly a '0' hour SMOH engine. Someone installed rings and pistons without doing basic checks.
Good luck with your project.
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Old 25 August 2005, 07:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As a note, if I'm not mistaken, the Old Rhinebeck replica triplane N220TP uses the Continental radial as well.
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Old 26 August 2005, 06:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Lamboley
Thanks all for responding. I have done a small bit of research on radial engines. I'm glad to hear back from people who know something about them too.
There are a few radials that are about the right weight and horsepower that have been used on these WWI replicas. Rotaries were quite heavy and I've been told that if you use a Lycoming 320 you have to add about 100 pounds to the nose of the Triplane and the DVIII. I'm going to go for it. It's going into a Fokker Triplane. There are some in New Zealand and I'm sure one of those is using a 220 Continental. By the way those Triplanes in New Zealand look great. They did a masterful job of creating an illusion of a short shallow cowling.
That should make a dandy engine for a DrI. You will probably have to open the cowling up a bit for cooling, since the engine doesn't spin to get the cylinders out into the uncowled lower area and cool them. (Same would be true for the DVIII I mentioned.) This won't look EXACTLY right from "head on" but only the weenies on here (like me) would ever even know the difference. In other words, GO FOR IT!

It would be even better on something like a Morane, Eindecker, Camel, Pup, Fokker DII/III/V (the I and IV are inline engine aircraft) Nieuport 11-28, Siemens-Schuckert DI, Euhler DII, Avro 504, (various versions) Sikorsky S16, etc.... anything with a rotary and an "open face" cowl. (the Morane has a big spinner, but it has air intake all the way around... should be just fine) because you wouldn't have to modify the cowl.

Brad
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Old 27 August 2005, 12:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The price you have posted leads me to believe that you are looking at a Tank engine. The aircraft engines should go for more. My understanding of the main difference is the crankshaft. The 'aero' crankshafts are becoming a little harder to find. I understand that the tank engine crankshafts require an adaptor to mate to standard aircraft hubs. I'm commenting only from anecodotal observations. Apparently the cylinders, ect, are the same as the aero engine, but have as yet not been accepted for certificated engines.
I have run 'crate' 0 time engines and heartly reccommend a tear down and inspection. The last one I used Had two overhauled cylinders and both the new cylinders had damaged rings.
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Old 27 August 2005, 12:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Hello again,

Just an update for anyone interested. As it turns out this engine was overhauled about 3 or 4 years ago. It was overhauled in an aviation mechanics school. Yikes ! One of the fellas who is assisting in the sale is the instructor at the school and is , of course a certified aviation mechanic. It does turn over and it has been in dry storage for these last 3 or 4 years. I do not think it is a Tank engine because it originally was used by the Navy. I thought some landing craft used them. I need to ask him about that. Are you saying that all Continental 670's not used originally in an aircraft application can not be cerfified as airworthy ? Is the hub / spline the only difference? Is it a length or diameter issue or both. I also thought that the tank engines were nine cylinder Continentals. I couldn't say for sure. Owner said that when they took it apart that it was already in good shape and that the cylinders had been chromed while in the Navy. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get it from where it is to where I am. It's not far from Russia.

Last edited by CORVUS; 27 August 2005 at 01:11 PM.
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