Fokker D.VII Question

gipsymoth236k · 21 March 2007, 12:20 PM

Hello Fokker D.VII experts!

I am trying to determine if the last CROSS bay of the Fokker D.VII's fuselage was wire braced. It seems that the tailskid would hit the bracing wires in this bay if it were wire braced. I am looking for original photos to show this detail either way. Attached is a poor quality photo of a D.VII fuselage (Fokker-built 7774/18) that was examined in 1920 at McCook Field (note that this fuselage is damaged aft of the cockpit), but I can't see this detail well enough to answer this question. If I could find a clearer version of it, or perhaps someone has another photo to show this confirming detail, that would be quite helpful. I do see contemporary drawings like in the FLIGHT article show this last cross bay to be wire braced, but a photo would be more valid.

Also, if anyone has a high resolution version of this McCook Field D.VII fuselage drawing (even with damage perfectly copied!), that too would be very useful to me, overall.

Thanks in advance, Gary Sewall

RobW · 21 March 2007, 01:32 PM

Don't know anything about the wire bracing but... Hmmm... notice the bent bar behind the pilot's seat... didn't we just have a discussion about that?

rob

gipsymoth236k · 21 March 2007, 02:06 PM

Good eye Rob!

I am just now in 'hot' discussion with other Fokker research individuals regarding the 'bent' Fokker seat frame question found in original Fokker Dr.I, D.VII, and D.VIII photos of this assembly. I believe that it was possibly an intentional design to have the aft cross tube bent aft a bit, this to allow slight 'flex' of the seat frame's attachment fittings in and out while adjusting the whole seat frame assembly up and down on the fuselage's upright tubing. I think others believe that this aft seat frame tube was originally designed to be straight, with no intentional bend, but then was indeed eventually bent aft due to the pilot's weight and associated stress loads imposed. A photo of a NEW, in-factory fresh seat frame assembly would surely answer this question once and for all!

The entire question is not yet resolved, but the fact is, this tube frame is indeed found to be bent aft in original photos. We are just not sure yet why.

Regards, Gary Sewall

RobW · 21 March 2007, 03:09 PM

Despite our best intentions, once a piece of equipment gets into "Joe's" hands you'd be astounded at what they do to it... both good & bad.

gipsymoth236k · 21 March 2007, 04:10 PM

Here's a photo of the NASM's original OAW-built D.VII showing the probable tailskid contact 'issue' if cross bay wire bracing was installed there. This makes me wonder if this last fuselage bay perhaps lacked any wire bracing? It's not a clear enough photo to really tell.

Gary Sewall

Maxim08 · 21 March 2007, 06:14 PM

Gary,
This view of the Canada Aviation D VII may help.
There is no fouling of the shid with bracing wires.

Regards,
John

gipsymoth236k · 21 March 2007, 08:44 PM

John,

Thanks for the photo of this RESTORED Canadian D.VII. However, I do know of SEVERAL reproduction components on this particular D.VII's airframe to have been fabricated recently during its restoration, and so are therefore deemed not original D.VII parts. That's a problem when considering original design. The problem when referring to photos of 'restored' aircraft is that they are only as valid for originality as the restorers made them AFTER tampering with their TRUE originality. As example, look at the upper wire bracing shown in the aft bay of this restored D.VII's photo. I know of no original D.VIIs that had this last upper bay wire braced, UNLESS this feature is new to me, as would also be seen in original photos taken BEFORE the restoration process, and therefore deemed valid as original. While all photos contain valuable information, photos of original airframes are considered priceless to this effort.

I think what would be quite valuable here would be either photos of the original airframe, or photos taken BEFORE the original airframe's restoration used as working reference BEFORE its restoration in preparation. So, are there any photos taken of this particular D.VII BEFORE its restoration? If so, now THAT would be the determining reference we seek!

BTW, even Fokker FACTORY drawings can be misleading due to changes made during the production run of line airframes!

I do thank you John for any and all help, however!

Regards, Gary Sewall

gipsymoth236k · 21 March 2007, 09:38 PM

See what I mean here about 'conflicting' drawing information with this contemporary FLIGHT magazine article? We see the aft cross bay to be wire braced in this artist's drawing! So, did he draw what he actually saw?

Gary Sewall

Maxim08 · 22 March 2007, 08:20 AM

Gary,
I believe that I understand your concern re authentic sources for information. Re the 'Ottawa' D VII, the restoration work is very well documented with copious notes and drawings illustrating pre and post restoration/refurbishment.
All of the bracing wires, including inside the wings are documented with drawings. (there are photos and I'll see what I can dig up.) I was told that this was as much an instruction guide for the reassembly as documenting the predisposition of the a/c.

Probably the easiest to overlook piece of information is that this a/c worked in the United States for many years prior to coming to Canada. What happened to it, what was altered from original is open to conjecture.

The originals, where they existed, of most replaced parts are held by the museum.

Regarding the replacement of parts, the most notable replacement is engine, prop and radiator with Merceds appropriate pieces (including all new rad) replacing the Hall-Scott that came with the a/c.

Remember that virtually no restoration work has been done by CAM staff. The last work was mid 1970's and done outside the museum but to a standard, including documentation, defined by the collection.

You're on an interesting line of research. I will be interested in what you uncover.

Here's an image inside the Knowlton D VII. Perhaps you can get one of the area that you are researching.

Regards,
John

Maxim08 · 22 March 2007, 09:45 AM

Gary,
The following images were downloaded from the Canada Aviation Museum web site. BTW, a great resource for a/c images.
The first is the McCook drawing that you reference. I have asked the library and restoration group whether this still exists and should hear back in a few days.

This next image could be a good resource for you if I/we can locate the original. At this time I have no provenance on the image ie Europe, US or Canada or actual date but I will see what I can dig up.

Regards,
John