Sopwith Baby Project

[Joe Perkel]

I had imagined that you would operate the Baby much like a cross-country sail plane or balloon - with a ground crew. One of the less happy events that could happen is to lose air-worthiness in a strange place where the plane cannot be stored safely inside pending repairs.

So, one of the really neat opportunities you have is to design the towable trailer which is highway legal and can be used to extract the Baby from the water without dragging it (gasp) over the beach

John,

One parallel issue in comparison of this particular project to a personal submersible is the level of “Surface Support” is actually quite similar. The major difference being the gross weight of the vehicles involved.

I’ve already been looking at trailer options, and one question to be answered as you note, is the outside width of the floats (forgotten at the moment), the height of the tail is 10’. But, that height requires disassembly with an enclosed trailer, which is the most likely option since I would want to take this to Oshkosh at least once, (preferably before flight )!

I’ve given thought to precisely what you say, about recovery of a non-serviceable aircraft away from home. This plane would likely never be more than the round trip range (with 30 min reserve) of home base, so my thinking is, (barring pilot incapacitation), I would hire local security while I go fetch the trailer and some help. Incapacitated, well I guess the local authorities would have a plan.

The airplane sunk, would require either dragging with a grapple, or lift bags, either of which would be beyond my capacity, so a salvage company would be well feed for the year!

[mark_pilkington]

Originally Posted by brinesharks

I potentially have access to one of these. The owner is keen to help but he thinks the Warner is a boat anchor. Are spare parts available? I'm having trouble finding anyone in Australia that would overhaul it and get it flying. I get met with a lot of scepticism.

Anyone know what a fair price would be to get a Warner?

Brinesharks, Borg Sorenson in Melbourne and Jimmy Williams in Albury are both experienced with Warner Scarab overhauls in Australia, parts however are the issue, there are new pistons and rings available in the USA, but spare crankshafts, cylinders etc are becoming very hard to find.

While there were over 250 Warner Scarabs in Australia during WW2, (the 200 fitted to the CAC Wackett Trainers and @50 spare engines) many of these were purchased up after WW2 and shipped back to the USA. A further exodus occurred in the 1960's/1970's as WW1 replica builders scoured Australia for these engines as they were a perfect size for rotary replacements, there are few Scarabs existing in Australia outside those fitted to airframes or in museum displays.

There are still Warner Scarabs occasionally advertised on Barnstormers.com, including the rare 185, with prices from $12,000 to $25,000 depending on condition.

The Jacobs R755 is available in overhauled condition in the USA and although fractionally larger diameter than the Scarab, comes with a higher horsepower of 225HP, it is 1118mm diameter compared to the 902mm diameter of the Warner, although as has been discussed above the new build Rotec 3600 seems the ideal engine to base modern replica projects upon.

regards

Mark Pilkington

[Joe Perkel]

although as has been discussed above the new build Rotec 3600 seems the ideal engine to base modern replica projects upon.

Mark,

I'm convinced that the R3600 is near perfect for a full scale Pup.

The Svobda Strutter in Europe, has just got to be way underpowered with the R2800, the numbers simply aren't right.

I spoke with a radial overhaul shop here in the U.S,...same story as you note, bad news with parts now.

[Dogtail2]

I believe the Svobda Strutter is scaled down to 85%.

[Joe Perkel]

Originally Posted by Dogtail2

I believe the Svobda Strutter is scaled down to 85%.

Aha, That makes all the difference, and is damn tempting!

It's only the thought of burying a modern flat opposed (ala the Tripes), while still maintaining some semblance of external authenticity, that ultimately saves this project from downsizing.

[David Paule]

Hate to be picky, but you mentioned a 30 minute reserve of fuel for a round trip. To me, that's worrisome. There are too many foreseeable events that would leave you with insufficient fuel. My own preference is for 45 minutes to an hour.

In one case, I remember returning from a trip just in time to see a gust front starting to sweep across the valley where my home airport is. I had to orbit more than half an hour before I could set down. I had plenty of fuel and didn't mind doing that.

Of course, that reserve is on top of any unusable fuel you might have. Depending on the shape of the tank, that might be surprising.

Just be careful....

[Joe Perkel]

Originally Posted by David Paule

Hate to be picky, but you mentioned a 30 minute reserve of fuel for a round trip. To me, that's worrisome. There are too many foreseeable events that would leave you with insufficient fuel. My own preference is for 45 minutes to an hour.

In one case, I remember returning from a trip just in time to see a gust front starting to sweep across the valley where my home airport is. I had to orbit more than half an hour before I could set down. I had plenty of fuel and didn't mind doing that.

Of course, that reserve is on top of any unusable fuel you might have. Depending on the shape of the tank, that might be surprising.

Just be careful....

David,

I hear you. Still, 30 min is 22% of the original capacity.

I've been wondering a bit about how this would be used,..really good days of course. So, my thinking is short hops from home base, anything long in Florida, would be preplanned with support as John suggested.

Lot's of bodies of water to set down in everywhere in a pinch, restrictions be damned! Imagine the local fuss. Put this down in Biscayne Bay in Miami, is certain to attract a swarm of news choppers. So a small peaceful lake in central Florida, and I'm likely to have plenty of help.

30 min,... I can review that when the time comes.

Thanks David!

[brinesharks]

Originally Posted by mark_pilkington

Brinesharks, Borg Sorenson in Melbourne and Jimmy Williams in Albury are both experienced with Warner Scarab overhauls in Australia, parts however are the issue, there are new pistons and rings available in the USA, but spare crankshafts, cylinders etc are becoming very hard to find.

While there were over 250 Warner Scarabs in Australia during WW2, (the 200 fitted to the CAC Wackett Trainers and @50 spare engines) many of these were purchased up after WW2 and shipped back to the USA. A further exodus occurred in the 1960's/1970's as WW1 replica builders scoured Australia for these engines as they were a perfect size for rotary replacements, there are few Scarabs existing in Australia outside those fitted to airframes or in museum displays.

There are still Warner Scarabs occasionally advertised on Barnstormers.com, including the rare 185, with prices from $12,000 to $25,000 depending on condition.

The Jacobs R755 is available in overhauled condition in the USA and although fractionally larger diameter than the Scarab, comes with a higher horsepower of 225HP, it is 1118mm diameter compared to the 902mm diameter of the Warner, although as has been discussed above the new build Rotec 3600 seems the ideal engine to base modern replica projects upon.

regards

Mark Pilkington

Thanks for your insight Mark. I think we have talked on the phone - by my notes about 6 years ago! If you are the same person I was thinking of - regarding Wackett drawings?

The Rotec engines are certainly nice engines. I just don't think the R3600 has the grunt. It works well on the aluminium structured 100% replicas but can't swing as a big a prop as some claim. I need something that can give me the low RPM with the big (100") prop. If you disagree, please let me know. I'm keen to resolve the engine issue for my own project which is why I', so interested in Joe's design decisions. Very helpful thread

Brisfitworks has previously suggested the M14 225hp example is an option given it's tolerance of low RPM and propensity for swinging big props. His calculations were convincing (just have to find them again!). My only trouble with this engine is the space needed behind the engine is significant. I think it would end up with engine components on my lap in the Ni17! I plan to draw up the fuselage in CAD and test fit the engine and components....all on my long to-do list....

[Joe Perkel]

Or, more aptly titled, The Audacity of Building a WWI Replica in a 12x6x8 Space!

Status of my component workshop as of today!!

I'm counting the days and sticking pins in an effigy of the contractor!

[Nick]

Originally Posted by Joe Perkel

Status of my component workshop as of today!!

Hi Joe,
Good to see some progress there.
Just reading the book on Tom Sopwith “Pure Luck” at the moment. It mentions that when they were expanding the factory as soon as the floor was laid, work benches would appear and carpenters & metal fitters would start work . The walls were erected around them. Maybe you could do the same.

Cheers, Nick