Sopwith Snipe Project - Page 18

j ferguson · 30 June 2008, 05:55 AM

Nick,
I think you've hit on it, they must be steps for getting down into the cockpit from the point where you are standing on the seat. I can assure you that anyone afflicted with bi-focals would welcome these handy guides.

I wonder if there is a standard control lock for keeping the stick from doing to you what you suggested in your last post.

It's amazing to me how cluttered these cockpits seem. It is easy to imagine that putting your full weight on those floor boards as you settle in might not be such a good idea nor would getting your boots tangled in the machinery be so good either.

There isn't any chance that these were intended to make it possible (somehow) to fly the plane while changing an ammunition drum on a wing mounted MG, is there?

Or maybe this is just another scheme by our great grandfathers to perplex us.

best,
John

Nick · 30 June 2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j ferguson

There isn't any chance that these were intended to make it possible (somehow) to fly the plane while changing an ammunition drum on a wing mounted MG, is there?

Or maybe this is just another scheme by our great grandfathers to perplex us.

best,
John

Just had a go at climbing into the seat after standing on a step ladder next to it. Not that easy getting in that's for sure (and this is supposed to be a large cockpit compared to the Camel!). Squeezing in between the Vickers even with no stick there at present is tight. Okay I did make a few engine noises whilst there and let loose a few pot shots at a passing DVII

The Snipe to my knowledge never had a wing mounted MG, so I guess, unless someone comes up with another use, they're to stand on getting in and out.

Cheers, Nick

Joe Perkel · 2 July 2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Just had a go at climbing into the seat after standing on a step ladder next to it. Not that easy getting in that's for sure (and this is supposed to be a large cockpit compared to the Camel!). Squeezing in between the Vickers even with no stick there at present is tight. Okay I did make a few engine noises whilst there and let loose a few pot shots at a passing DVII

The Snipe to my knowledge never had a wing mounted MG, so I guess, unless someone comes up with another use, they're to stand on getting in and out.

Cheers, Nick

Nick,

Any possibility that these may be an early attempt at gust locks? Anything forward or aft and in line with these that can be secured to with a line?

Seems a bit strange to put steps on a rotating control but, it may very well turn out to be just that.

I will keep an eye out for these on my Sopwith drawings.

Joe Perkel · 2 July 2008, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Joe,
Not familiar with the compass you describe. Another type that was used was a bit like this one (this one is actually from a Tank but similar ones were used in aircraft I believe). This one was on ebay a couple of years ago.

Once you've identified the type you could try advertising on Barnstormers.com & in publications such as WW1 Aero. Generally I've picked up most of the stuff by asking around and following the trails. Occasionally they lead somewhere, but thats half the fun.
Regarding the seat, I guess that's a personal choice. I've been learning lots of new skills on this project, but basket weaving wasn't going to be one of them so I sent a copy of the Sopwith plans to a guy in Adelaide who made it for me. Seeing as the plans still had "Top Secret and Confidential" stamped on them he was informed that he'd have to be shot after completion as we did not want the Germans flying around in such luxury!!

Here's a few pics he sent me during manufacture and one after covering. The hole in the middle of the seat is where the Main fuel tank is refuelled from.

Have a great holiday Joe,
Cheers, Nick

Nick,

Here is a scan of what I was trying to describe. It still doesn't quite seem to match what I am seeing here and what you guys describe unless I'm looking at the drawing wrong.

This does appear a bit nautical. With this control column and this compass, perhaps I should install an engine telegraph in lieu of a throttle!

I've decided to go with a wicker bench based on how your original cockpit is so inspirational! The Norwegian trainer may very well have had boards, but I can't be sure and the wicker is certainly more period style.

Nick · 2 July 2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Perkel

Nick,

Any possibility that these may be an early attempt at gust locks? Anything forward or aft and in line with these that can be secured to with a line?

Seems a bit strange to put steps on a rotating control but, it may very well turn out to be just that.

I will keep an eye out for these on my Sopwith drawings.

Hi Joe,
It's listed as a footstep and although an odd place to put it especially as it rotates (maybe the designer had a sense of humour

) there is really nowhere else they could put one. As the plan says it's a "secret"!

Regarding your compass it doesn't look like a 259 and more like one that you'd read from the top unless it has a window at the front. Not familiar with it but there must be someone out there who knows what it is. Does the cockpit have lighting as see on the plan it has "compass battery"?

Cheers, Nick

David Paule · 2 July 2008, 06:48 PM

This isn't exactly like the one on your plans, but it's not far off. It's a Pioneer. It was with a few other WWI aircraft instruments that I bought some years ago. It's pretty heavy, even with the fluid missing.

The paint is damaged, so the top looks like it's broken. But except for having no fluid, it looks operable. It's unrestored.

Incidentally, the yardstick was resting on the newspaper, several inches below the top of the compass, so don't use that to scale it. It's just for reference.

David Paule

Joe Perkel · 2 July 2008, 07:16 PM

Nick,

Interesting,.. they are in fact steps. My drawings are all stuffed into tubes, so when I look through that one (tube) again, I will see if these were done on my earlier aircraft.

Quote:

Regarding your compass it doesn't look like a 259 and more like one that you'd read from the top unless it has a window at the front. Not familiar with it but there must be someone out there who knows what it is. Does the cockpit have lighting as see on the plan it has "compass battery"?

I have to look at this further. This was just a preliminary "look see" into this panel because I noticed our compasses were vastly different. I suspect the battery is for lighting the compass as you noted but, I cant imagine these having been used at night at sea.

I think maybe the little rectangular item above the compass may be either a mirror or some sort of projection glass. If a mirror, then perhaps the card was printed to compensate for a mirror image???? Seems a bit odd but, I will look into this further.

Thanks Nick.

Quote:

This isn't exactly like the one on your plans, but it's not far off. It's a Pioneer. It was with a few other WWI aircraft instruments that I bought some years ago. It's pretty heavy, even with the fluid missing.

David,

No doubt a top reading card on mine as well. I'm thinking that I may look into nautical antique compasses as well. There is also a "watch" mounted on this panel. My thinking is to go with an authentic look if not exactly precise.

Thanks for the pictures, helpful for comparisons!

brisfitworks · 3 July 2008, 04:54 AM

Joe:

I am not familiar with this compass, but I have a number of early WW1 texts outlining instruments, so I may find a reference to this style and give me a type number to pass along.

It is styled like a post war compass like a P.8. The little square atop is likely a mirror as on an engineer's field compass for viewing aligning the needle and lines. The thing below is likely a round can covering swinging magnets for alignment and compensating the metal in the a/c.

[quote=Joe Perkel;

Nick,

Here is a scan of what I was trying to describe. It still doesn't quite seem to match what I am seeing here and what you guys describe unless I'm looking at the drawing wrong.

This does appear a bit nautical. With this control column and this compass, perhaps I should install an engine telegraph in lieu of a throttle!

[/QUOTE]

brinesharks · 3 July 2008, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick

Hi Joe,
It's listed as a footstep and although an odd place to put it especially as it rotates (maybe the designer had a sense of humour

) there is really nowhere else they could put one. As the plan says it's a "secret"!

So:

Helmet, check
Goggles, check
Flying jacket, check
Flying gloves, check
Cricket box........check....

I notice that it's not only SECRET but CONFIDENTIAL as well! Just in case you don't know what secret means I guess.

Joe Perkel · 5 July 2008, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brisfitworks

Joe:

I am not familiar with this compass, but I have a number of early WW1 texts outlining instruments, so I may find a reference to this style and give me a type number to pass along.

It is styled like a post war compass like a P.8. The little square atop is likely a mirror as on an engineer's field compass for viewing aligning the needle and lines. The thing below is likely a round can covering swinging magnets for alignment and compensating the metal in the a/c.

So, is this then an example of an Aperiodic compass? WWI Aviation Novels - Caird Publications > Scrap Book > RAF Navigation Bits

I've done a bit of preliminary searching and see that there are dedicated compass aficionados out there that would probably be a good lead. Will try that route.

Thanks Bill!