Nieuport research

Jim52 · 12 December 2008, 02:24 PM

I too have those Macchi drawings, plus a small Italian booklet on the Ni 17
that I obtained from Paolo Miana. Curious thing, most of the part numbers in
the booklet are of the 11xxx type. In fact, I think the only ones that are of
the 17xxx series, center around the pilot's seat, control column, and the
Vickers mount, maybe the firewall too.

Jim

brinesharks · 12 December 2008, 03:42 PM

From what I've seen of my research - Nieuport models were more upgrades from previous models. So the Ni11 with modifications became the Ni17 which, with further modifications became the Ni27. They shared a lot of common fittings and certainly very similar design ideas.

nieuport fan - what did you want to build? If it's a scratch built static model or RC flying model, yes they would be excellent. If you wanted to build a large replica to fly in, I'd say you have a lot of designing ahead of you. Hardesty gives some excellent layout and materials information, but you couldn't build fittings and other detailed parts from them. Also, Hardesty measured everything in imperial so you have to convert between the two measurements if you want to combine his drawings with the Rozendaal/Macchi ones which are in metric.

Jim52 - where did you get the Macchi Ni11 drawings?

Jim52 · 13 December 2008, 03:45 AM

Those drawings are on the Nieuport disk that Leatherhead is offering. Another
source would be WW1 Aero. An interesting set of plans. For example, the
first, 11400, I think, lays out the fuselage wooden components. There is a
table that gives the dimensions for the fuselage up-rights and cross-members.
I suspect because of this table, you won't find individual drawings for them.
Hence a gap in the drawing sequence. That's just a guess at this point.

Jim

13 December 2008, 07:10 PM

Now I don't recall if all the dimensions on the Hardesty set are given in both Imperial and metric but quite a few are. The scale is 1/12. Would agree that a model would probably be rather easy to contruct from them, however, we found them a bit lacking when we built a Neiuport 83. It was our understanding that all basic single seaters, and some two seaters, used same fuselage layout, stations etc. Later types probably had some strengthening. Also, IIRC, there was a study published in WWI Aero which came to a similar conclusion. IIRC, we used the Macci drawings and photos.

One of the things that about the Hardesty effort I have questions about is the differing sweep back of the wings given for different rotary engines. Can anyone comment/confirm this feature?

Joe Perkel · 14 December 2008, 04:33 AM

I have received some information regarding the N-27 that may be of interest to those on the Aerodrome forum who are looking for information on the N27.

The Nieuport 27 drawings shown on the Replicraft website,....

Plan Sets

.....were made completely from original factory drawings. The set he worked from had a complete numerical listing of all drawings and not one of the drawings were missing. Originally, the working set at one time belonged to Jack Canary. This drawing set at Replicraft shows everything that was on the original drawings.

Jim52 · 14 December 2008, 05:51 AM

I have seen those plans on Mr. Kiger's site and was wondering about them.
I know that his plan sets are real good ones. I've ordered an article from
WW1 Aero titled "Nieuports 11/17/27 A Comparitive Study of Fuselages". If
this sheds some light on some of the questions that I have, then a set might
be in the near future.

Jim

brinesharks · 15 December 2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim52

I have seen those plans on Mr. Kiger's site and was wondering about them.
I know that his plan sets are real good ones. I've ordered an article from
WW1 Aero titled "Nieuports 11/17/27 A Comparitive Study of Fuselages". If
this sheds some light on some of the questions that I have, then a set might
be in the near future.

Jim

Hi Jim,

I failed to mention that I bought everything from WW1 Aeroplanes Inc that seemed related to the N17 (plus the N27 drawings). I have the article you mention - good detail on the basic fuselage structure but it's a very narrow scope of research.

I'll have to buy Leatherhead's CD - I'll wait until after Christmas so the mail is a little more reliable. Seems the UPS gets a little swamped!

I have pondered buying the Replicraft plans. I have Jim's Sopwith Triplane and SE5a drawings which are all quite comprehensive.

nieuport fan · 15 December 2008, 09:51 AM

brinesharks,
I will be building a full scale replica. My workshop is finally complete and I am ready to start building my jig table. My first choice is the N11/16. The Macchi drawings do have good rib profile dimensions as well as cap strip and spar details. I think between all of the info available it can be done. If this proves impossible I will go ahead with my current direction and build the N28 from the Schuler plans. Although to be honest I have not completely ruled out the 17. This decision is the only thing preventing me from starting, with plans and information being the deciding factor.

brinesharks · 17 December 2008, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nieuport fan

brinesharks,
I will be building a full scale replica. My workshop is finally complete and I am ready to start building my jig table. My first choice is the N11/16. The Macchi drawings do have good rib profile dimensions as well as cap strip and spar details. I think between all of the info available it can be done. If this proves impossible I will go ahead with my current direction and build the N28 from the Schuler plans. Although to be honest I have not completely ruled out the 17. This decision is the only thing preventing me from starting, with plans and information being the deciding factor.

Great! I don't know a great deal about the available material for the Ni11 but it seems we at least have some of the material. Jim will be pleased someone else is researching the Ni11/16. I think the early Nieuports are a little neglected in the replica stakes. Maybe the reputation is not as strongly tied to the US involvement in WW1 as the Ni28 and SPADs?

I am happy to combine research efforts and help out where I can. I will start on some parts and post the outcome here. Just have to get through the Christmas rush! I plan to water-jet cut the 'H' fittings that hold the fuselage together and potentially some other parts. However most of the parts have straight edges and would be easy to cut on a band saw with a metal cutting blade and finish up on the linisher. I will probably cut the ribs using a band saw and router table. There's a neat way of doing this which I'll post a diagram of. Can't wait for the Aussie dollar to get stronger so I can order Spruce from the US!

brinesharks · 17 December 2008, 02:36 AM

Here's a picture of the template jig in action:

It's from 'Shopnotes' magazine No.24 (pg9) which has a detailed article on making and using this setup. This is an old edition (1990s?) but you may find this article in one of their compilation softcover books. Shopnotes mag is well worth a look - it solves a lot of building headaches!

The template and guide should be around the same thickness. You hold the template to the timber with double sided heavy duty tape. This technique leaves a 1/16" edge around the template which you can finish off on a router table with a guide bit. The bearing rides along the template and the bit (I'd recommend a spiral cut bit) trims the timber flush. The routed edge is better for gluing than a sanded edge IMHO. Far superior to laser cut edges!

That being said I have a lead on CNC routing of timber from CAD files. I might enquire as to the price!