Nieuport research

brinesharks · 16 November 2008, 11:25 PM

Jim52 and I have decided to join research efforts in recreating the early Nieuport scouts. Jim in 1/8th 'museum' scale and me in 1:1 scale.

The hope is that this thread will be a focal point for gathering information on the Nieuport series from 11 to 27 (and any other relevant models). It is my hope that we can establish a definitive body of reference for the model 17 and 24s.

If you have a question about the Nieuport designs or would like to contribute, please feel free.

More to follow....

Joe Perkel · 17 November 2008, 08:33 AM

Sure Bryan, I'll contribute, the GLEE Al. tube Nieuports first caught my eye in the WWI replica arena.

First quick stop, if you don't already have it, is Michael Fletcher's dedicated Nieuport site......

The Nieuport Page

Second (Most important source for drawings), of course our freinds at WWI Aero.....

index

Third,...Museums in France, ....Parlez vous francais?

Jim52 · 17 November 2008, 06:29 PM

As Brineshark has stated above, my goal is an accurate 1/8 scale model of
either a Ni-11 or Ni-17. Those choices may change depending upon what can
be uncovered but, it will be a V-strutter. Joe, thanks for chipping in! I've
followed your project with pleasure. Keep those posts coming! Since I
suspect that there will be a lot of questions here, let me start the ball rolling.
Can anyone share the history of the Rozendaal drawings? They seem to be
dated 1917. Were they developed from a French aircraft? Italian? British?
Maybe Russian?? I, for one, would like to know where I'm starting from before
I get lost in the woods!

Jim

Joe Perkel · 17 November 2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim52

Can anyone share the history of the Rozendaal drawings? They seem to be
dated 1917. Were they developed from a French aircraft? Italian? British?
Maybe Russian?? I, for one, would like to know where I'm starting from before
I get lost in the woods!

Jim

Jim,

When I was an active A&P, I learned that a handy talent to have, is where (reference or person), to look for answers. Kind of like aeronautical sleuthing, I loved it,.... too bad the airline tanked!

I've never talked to him, but I've identified the preeminent resident Historian to be Dan San Abbott. He would have the answer for you.

Thanks for the well wishes, ...chomping at the bitt to get started!

brinesharks · 18 November 2008, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim52

Can anyone share the history of the Rozendaal drawings? They seem to be dated 1917. Were they developed from a French aircraft? Italian? British?
Maybe Russian?? I, for one, would like to know where I'm starting from before
I get lost in the woods!

Jim

Jim - do you have the detailed description (magazine article) by John Rozendaal? Here is the introduction:

Translated from 'Zeitschrift fur Flugtechnik und Motorluftschiffart' volume VIII (1917), issues 11 & 12.

The Nieuport Fighter

(Avion de chasse Nieuport, Type 17)
By John Rozendaal, Berlin and 's-Gravenhage

1. General
The model to be described here in detail using part drawings and sketches was built towards the end of 1916 by the "Societe Anonyme des Establissements Nieuports" in Jssy-les Moulineaux. The company operates flying schools in Villancoublay near Paris and at Frejus, St-Raphael (Var), the latter for maritime purposes; alongside the French companies such as Caudron, H&M Farman, Franco-British Aviation Company, Morane and Voisin, Nieuport has been designing and building aeroplanes independently since the beginning of the world war. Until recently, Nieuport was the leading manufacturer of fast fighter planes in the entante countries....

So it seems the answer to your questions is that it was French (or at least French built). Rozendaal went on to describe the plane in excellent detail (30 pages of translated text), including the materials used for each fitting and the wood used in various components. Considering the diversity of wood and the steel, aluminium, duralium and other materials, it truly is a 'composite' aircraft!

I don't know why he didn't detail the undercarriage or cowl. Maybe these were too badly damaged? I'm just guessing but maybe the aircraft was shot down and captured?

brinesharks · 18 November 2008, 01:46 AM

Thanks Joe for the Nieuport page link - really good historical site.

BTW - If anyone has a good colour scheme - please let me know! I need something to pin up on my workshop wall to keep the goal in focus.

Apparently there was a British Nieuport unit in the middle-east (near Cairo) where the first Australian Flying Corps unit trained before deploying on combat operations. Does anyone have any history of this unit? Apparently the Australians made quite a name for themselves 'beating up' senior officers, the race course, boats, etc in their planes. They also used to compete with each other to tip over the local Egyptian boats with the prop-wash from their Nieuports!

Jim52 · 18 November 2008, 04:07 AM

Thanks, Brineshark. I'm trying to get that translation, along with a bunch of
other material from WW1 Aero. A bit of difficulty with work hours and time
differences so, I just might send a check for the bundle and sort it out later.
1916. Then it seems that the drawings might have been developed from an
early French production run. At least I know now what I'm looking at and
compare it to later drawings.

Jim

Lufbery · 18 November 2008, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brinesharks

The hope is that this thread will be a focal point for gathering information on the Nieuport series from 11 to 27 (and any other relevant models). It is my hope that we can establish a definitive body of reference for the model 17 and 24s.

In addition to the other links provided, don't forget to check out Mark Miller's 3D rendering of Nieuports.

Regards,

brinesharks · 19 November 2008, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lufbery

In addition to the other links provided, don't forget to check out Mark Miller's 3D rendering of Nieuports.

Regards,

Marks work is really inspirational! I have been bugging him for a while to sell prints. Great to put up in the workshop for inspiration. I have shown a few people his work so they know what I'm building!

brinesharks · 20 November 2008, 03:29 AM

To show that I'm actually doing something, here is my first (interesting) CAD drawn part:

It's the lower wing attachment fitting. This is part of the reason the Ni17 had a reputation for shedding its lower wings in a dive. This part was he only attachment point to the single lower wing spar. As a result, the wing could twist under torsional loads and result in 'flutter'. I try to post the wing spar side of the attachment and later the spar attachment points. All of them are aligned along the spar axis.

Jim - I'm having trouble interpreting Rozendaal's dimensions (one is smudged). Do you have the original Ni27 drawings for this part?

Nick - if you read this, the small holes through the shaft are for tapered pins.
I might pick your brains on these if I can.