WWI Replica Safety

[mustang]

Reference my previous post concerning the accident investigation report into the Tiger moth accident which has been the subject of a number of comments on this forum.

I have succeeded in locating the full Australian Transport Safety Bureau report on th internet. It is far too lengthy to post here but it can be accessed by Googling " Accident to Tiger Moth VH-UNA on O1/ May 1994.

I suggest that it may be informative reading for pilots/operators of low power/high drag aircraft.

If the google attempt fails try www,atsb.gov.au and follow the prompts in the left hand list but it is a more lengthy search as there are some 48 pages of reports The accident occurred at an airfield in New South Wales called "LUSKINTYRE".

I hope this bit of information helps in a better understanding of this tragic incident.

Mustang

[Joe Perkel]

Originally Posted by mustang

I hope this bit of information helps in a better understanding of this tragic incident.

Mustang

Mustang,

A very fine and quite comprehensive report, thank you for posting.

We can often times see the "chain of events" prior to engine start, quite clearly but unfortunately,.. in retrospect. Many links in this chain,... the needle valve, the propeller, the poorly resovled control buffet issue, the missed prop detail on the last inspection, and the pilot's own decision chain traced back to initial installation of the mount.

After all of those missed opportunities, There remained one final link for this pilot to act upon, the one I think we can best benefit from here identified in the report, and surmised on this forum.....

Immediate, appropriate control inputs were not applied and control was consequently lost at a height insufficient to effect a recovery.

On a personal note

I know that this thread "bothers" some people, several members have contacted me off line as much. (I will not ID please do not ask). One of the things that they teach CFI's, is the learning process itself. By definition, learning is achieved when there is a "change in behavior." It's why the basics are always taught via repetition and demonstration ad nauseum.

None of us, no matter how experienced, is immune to failing at the basics when crunch time comes. The reports continuously provide hard evidence in support of that statement. It's personal acceptance of that very notion that is the first step in avoiding the problem in the first place.

Kind of like the 12 step program,.. #1) "...I admit that I am potentially vulnerable to simple mistakes..."

[Danny]

Originally Posted by Joe Perkel

None of us, no matter how experienced, is immune to failing at the basics when crunch time comes. The reports continuously provide hard evidence in support of that statement. It's personal acceptance of that very notion that is the first step in avoiding the problem in the first place.

Kind of like the 12 step program,.. #1) "...I admit that I am potentially vulnerable to simple mistakes..."

Joe, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head.

Those who are uncomfortable with a healthy discussion concerning safety and pilot behavior should ask themselves why.

True safety implies that we will be honest with first ourselves and then one another.

I've been flying for twenty-five years. I've been fortunate enough to log time in over five dozen aircraft. If there is anything I've learned thus far, it's how very little about aviation I know.

Tomorrow I'm going to go put on a uniform and transport several hundred people about the country. What's first and foremost on my mind?

What's for lunch?

What a great aviator I am?

Will I have time to go to the bathroom before I get to the hotel in San Juan tomorrow night?

Nope.

What's on my mind is that I am an accident waiting to happen. If I don't bring every bit of experience, judgement, knowledge and airmanship I've accumulated, if I don't approach my craft with the expectation that there's a 50% chance I'm going to screw something up, every single flight, if I'm not actively trying to stay engaged with trapping my team's and my errors with the humble perspective of a beginners mind?

Then I haven't done my job as a pilot.

Ladies and Gentlemen, it's not a matter of if the airplane lets you down, it's when. The more time we spend talking, thinking and putting into practice what it is we do both before and after that moment, the longer we will live.

So, ask yourself, "What are my weak areas?" "What's the worst thing this aircraft could do to me today and how will I cope with that?"

In other words, spend some time on the "what ifs..."

[Machinbird]

The missing part of the picture in the Tiger Moth accident is what lay off the end of the runway. I downloaded a Google earth picture of the Luskintyre airport environs (I hope I'm not in left field ). If that small pond in the helo view of the accident site is the one on the west end of the airport, which it probably is because you can look directly into one of the large hangars toward the end of the film. This means that landing straight ahead would have been off the field. Look at the area to the west of the airport and evaluate conditions for yourself. Per the accident report, the takeoff was to the West. Of course 12 years have elapsed between the accident and the satellite shot.

[drrivah]

Discussion reminds us of the postmortem on RAF aviator James McCudden's
death in early April 1918.

Same scenario: engine loss on takeoff (SE5A), attempt to return to field at low altitude, stall/spin/"impact with terrain". McCudden was an experienced high-time and very successful combat pilot with hours on many a/c types.

-pebarker

[Joe Perkel]

Originally Posted by Danny

Tomorrow I'm going to go put on a uniform and transport several hundred people about the country.

Hi Danny,

Comforting to see this mindset coming from an active ATP. I know that the industry is always doing it's best to battle complacency, but pilot mindset, is an individual thing.

I am always uplifted by the thought of pilots in your industry the likes of Haynes, Fitch and crew in UA 232....

United Airlines Flight 232 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And even though faulted for running out of fuel at FL 410, I am also inspired by the efforts of the crew of the "Gimli Glider!" .....

Gimli Glider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The above two stories have my now long gone primary instructor's words ringing in my ears,.... "Fly the damn plane!"

Thank you for your inspired response!

[j ferguson]

The written report on the accident Mustang pointed us to was outstanding and very complete. It had answers to every question I could think of. Except, of course, what could this guy have been thinking?

I think most of us realize that no-one ever intentionally sets out to do something stupid. So when you read about 5 or 6 stupid things done on the way to an accident, you really wonder. And what I wonder about are the stupid things I've done and continue to do, that I haven't recognized as such.

[Flysafe]

I too am disappointed that some are "bothered" by the discussions on this thread. Sharing our experiences enriches everyone's knowledge base and improves flight safety.

As a pilot with over 33 years flying in a myriad of airplanes I too approach each flight with care fully knowing that I regularly make errors and must be vigilant in trapping them and mitigating them.

None of us have the time to learn all mistakes by making them ourselves and the results of that kind of learning process have resulted in the loss of many great men and women who would expect us to learn from their errors.

Too many times I here the concerns of liability and worse still those who are to proud to want to admit they are not infallible as reasons for not sharing valuable lessons we have learned with other fellow aviators. Each time I hear these concerns I bristle and ask the question - "How are you going to feel if someone repeats the same event and is injured or dies?"

[j ferguson]

Originally Posted by Flysafe

fully knowing that I regularly make errors and must be vigilant in trapping them and mitigating them.

"Trapping and mitigating." That's really really good. Thank you so much for this very perceptive way of expressing how you need to pounce on your mistakes.

[Joe Perkel]

Originally Posted by Machinbird

Look at the area to the west of the airport and evaluate conditions for yourself. Per the accident report, the takeoff was to the West. Of course 12 years have elapsed between the accident and the satellite shot.

Sid,

Google earth is truly spectacular, I love it! I Was introduced to it for the first time via this forum last year.

Preflight chain of events aside for the moment, from a pilot reaction standpoint, two things about this accident trouble me, and will stay on my mind as a learning experience.

1) The report states a 2 sec reaction time required from engine failure to appropriate control inputs. As you watch the video, it is painfully obvious that this was not done, and that there was in fact time enough for an immediate and forceful pitch down. One gets the notion that the pilot's mind was likely briefly stunned by the reality of what was taking place. A frank failure of pre-planning the "what if" scenario, and "what to do about it" as mentioned by Danny in his post.

2) Is the massive turn to the left. Why? It would appear as suggested, an attempt to "kick it over" to a more favorable landing environment likely due to an instantaneous but, incorrect decision to effect the best possible outcome for the wing-walker.

#2 is pure speculation but, the fact remains that no attempt was made to correct the pitch.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I no longer fly out of HWO in order to spare myself the mental anguish of having to Kamikaze into the adjoining neighborhoods in the event of an engine failure after take-off. There have been a multitude of stall spin "return to airport" accidents at this field over the years. I myself suffered a partial power loss in a Cherokee coming off 9R, and had the most exciting pattern transit of my life, while wailing at the tower on the radio!

I took this photo off the net, looks like a bit of a wide L base to 36L. Now mentally fail the engine, Where you gonna put it? Hopefully, you make the boundary fence, but my point being that the Tiger Moth had it good by comparison, which is dumfounding to me. Such a tragic waste.



I for one, find the thread and the subject matter, (as unpleasant that it may be), to be of tremendous value to mentally prepare for these low speed high drag replicas.

As Pete notes, when you look at the list of kills attributed James McCudden, it is apparent that this was a guy who "wore the airplane" as an extension of his own body. Yet, he succumbs to a moment of basic aeronautical silliness.