WWI Replica Safety

[Joe Perkel]

I think the discussions on safety are valuable and talking about methods to get our families to support our efforts rather than just tolerate them is VITAL.

Hank, an obviously sensitive subject we pilots seem to like to avoid. The FAA jams safety down my throat every two years for my CFI FIRC, ok then,..I'll do my part......

I have a not too transparent confession to make,..that accident scared the hell out of me. Why,.. because it is the nightmare scenario, the one we train for the most, "see and avoid". Give me a failed engine (been there), but this one, a mid air, is particularly nasty.

Moving on to safety issues directly relevant to us then.......

Choice of power or fuel starvation, seems to be what brings down the most WWI replicas.

How to best avoid the above?, seems to me a worthy subject. I'll open the discussion there, but I do have a request for this particular thread. Let's attempt to leave out personal bias and identify and separate supposition from facts.

[Jeff Brooks]

For starters, I know a good preflight goes a LONG way!

When I was an instructor pilot in the army, I used to explain to the new guys how the book defines the preflight, but really .. your experience guides it. If you had an experience that scared you once ... you will look for it on every preflight from now on!

Old guys in the unit would let the new guys look at everything, then they would go up and look at the rotor head themselves ... because something scared them into not trusting the new guys.

A war story about a hydraulic emergency spooks you into checkin that resevoir every time.

Your preflight becomes a group of experiences that scare you into checking certain things every time before you go fly.

I know a guy very well who built a baby ace. He was putting the 25hours in the pattern, when he experienced an excellerated spin stall. He went straight into the ground. The FAA investigator found that one of the contributing factors of the accident was that a control cable was off the pulley, and when the pilot should have been warned of the onset of the stall by a shutter in the stick, he got none because that cable was isolated between the pulley and it's race. This plane had no way to inspect the pulley on preflight, it wasn't in the plans. But you know my plane will have some inspection doors on the pulleys now, and I will check it before every flight!

A recent "rough landing" I know of, was caused by leaking fuel at a fitting on the carb. It was working fine on very recent flights, but it caused a loss of power that resulted in a wrecked plane. The FAA found it by the degreasing of the engine around the carb. Now I know to put a large access door near the carb so enough light can get in there, and I can look for things like this ... before every flight.

I read a story about a guy in Long Island who built a Fokker DVII and he let a friend who is an experienced pilot do the inital flights. On landing, the plane swerved off to the right as weight was applied to the wheels. It turns out that the bungee cords were tighter on one side than the other. That pilot had the opportunity to talk to an old timer who explained that on preflight, they used to sit on the wing and measure how far the wing drooped. Then they repeated the check on the other side, trying to determine if both wings dipped down to the same level. Now that is in my preflight.

Although a good preflight usually catches problems on the ground, as a builder, you write the manual. Some builders are not always the pilot. We as builders need to consider what is important to pass on the those folks who fly the plane. That stuff goes into the operator's manual or aircraft manual. We don't always know what is important ... but it is important enough to research.

When we build our replica's or reproductions or whatever ... we seldom put as much effort into planning out regular maintenance. Although these planes can be built using automotive engines or certified aircraft engines, how often does the average home (often first time builder) plan in a regular inspection cycle for the plane. If the builder writes out how often something should be looked at, oil changed, or replaced, it becomes a requirement once the plane is certified.

I found that the one way check valves that keep my oil scavenge pump from cavitating had an AD on it. This part was once on Bell 47's, and has a history of not opening in either direction causing the transmission to sieze. The AD explains how the valve will be removed and checked for proper operation every 25 hours. YOU KNOW that is gonna go into my maintenance manual!

My point is the Builder needs to spend as much time researching the problem areas of a plane as he does on historical research.

[hank jarrett]

My opinion on fuel problems? Two causes jump to the front,
1) STUPID mistakes, like figuring your fuel burn wrong or using the wrong fuel, or not checking for water. There is NO excuse for these mistakes and they continue to cause accidents. We have GOT to get smarter and more careful. NEVER think it can't happen to you or that you are smarter than that. If you do you really increase your chances of becoming a statistic.
2) Complex fuel management systems. I have seen some fuel systems on factory built airplanes that confused the snot out of me till I had really studied them. I shudder to think what I might do when the tension meter is pegged. Switching to an empty tank and going silent with fuel aboard has killed professional pilots too many times to count. We have GOT to make sure our fuel systems are clear and easy to use.
Hank

By the way, my FIRST cross country flight was in a friends Piper Cherokee where we suffered a slowly progressive engine failure, WHILE WE WERE LOST over eastern Virginia and more trees than I knew existed. We broke a ring and pumped all the oil over the side. I was a sailplane pilot at the time and hadn't ever taken a lesson in power planes. I thought the other guy was navigating and he thought I was (I was on the controls so I will take the dummy of the day hit on that one). The look on his face when I told him I wasn't navigating was priceless, but we didn't laugh. He took the controls with a death grip with us loosing altitude WAY too fast. I asked for the controls back and smoothed things out (which surprised us both). Sailplane experience is a tremendous help in an engine out. NOT PANICING is an even bigger help. We found a private strip and made it down safely (there is a LOT more to this story, but most is not relevant to safety). If you are ever in a plane where the power is gone (pretty common in a sailplane) STAY CALM, FLY SMOOTH, there is no danger till you get to the ground except what you create.
TAKE SOME TIME IN A SAILPLANE! Not only will you have a GREAT time, you will learn about picking safe landing sites (WAY better than you will ever get from a power instructor), smooth control for best range and longest duration, and if you get a good instructor, the best things to hit and best way to hit them for survival. I also got some great training in collision avoidance (ever seen a gaggle of sailplanes in a thermal? That's why we wear chutes in competition.)

[Joe Perkel]

"For starters, I know a good preflight goes a LONG way!"

"Your preflight becomes a group of experiences that scare you into checking certain things every time before you go fly."

"...my plane will have some inspection doors on the pulleys now, and I will check it before every flight!"

"Now I know to put a large access door near the carb so enough light can get in there, and I can look for things like this ... before every flight."

".... Now that is in my preflight."

"... how often does the average home (often first time builder) plan in a regular inspection cycle for the plane."

"My point is the Builder needs to spend as much time researching the problem areas of a plane as he does on historical research."

... The importance of a thorough preflight inspection, and a continuing maintenance program can never be overstated.

Spectacular stuff Jeff!

[Joe Perkel]

"....figuring your fuel burn wrong or using the wrong fuel, or not checking for water."

"Complex fuel management systems......We have GOT to make sure our fuel systems are clear and easy to use."

"....NOT PANICING is an even bigger help..... STAY CALM, FLY SMOOTH, there is no danger till you get to the ground"

"...learn about picking safe landing sites"

".... the best things to hit and best way to hit them for survival."

Excellent Hank!

Discussion.....

So can we define then a WWI pressurized fuel system as complex? In my opinion, (supposition), I would say so. The decision then to replicate this would be a contributing factor in an accident.

What about those cases where WWI replicas installed a modernized fuel system, but suffered a non pilot induced failure in any case?

Would the likely cause in most cases be faulty components and or installation?

Most likely remedy then?... (Supposition).....

1) Initial choice of a reliable power plant.

2) Strict adherence to established aircraft fuel system practice and procedures as specified in Advisory Circulars AC-65-12A and AC-65.9A.

3) Preflight Inspection!

4) Ongoing maintenance program.

[sheppo]

"TAKE SOME TIME IN A SAILPLANE! Not only will you have a GREAT time, you will learn about picking safe landing sites (WAY better than you will ever get from a power instructor), smooth control for best range and longest duration"

Hank I'll second that!

As for the fuel system. My dva will have 1 active fuel cock instead of 4.
The 3 positions are: Main tank , emergency tank, & off.
KISS...

Chris

[Jeff Brooks]

Originally Posted by Joe Perkel

2) Strict adherence to established aircraft fuel system practice and procedures as specified in Advisory Circulars AC-65-12A and AC-65.9A.

AC 65-12A is for large AC (over 12,500lbs) you want AC 43.13B

[j ferguson]

Do it yourself even if someone else says he/she has done it. If they are going to do it, walk around with them and watch every move and DO NOT TALK. When you do it, look at each item twice and concentrate on it. Tell everyone else to go away. If you do get interrupted start over again - from the beginning. Look in the tanks, every one.

Since we're thinking about unusual planes, here, as Jeff has so prudently suggested, it would be good to have more inspection ports than you might otherwise have and a longer check-list. After all, unless you built your's exactly like the factory did, you are the test pilot.

I used to think that pre-flights were as much to preserve your prestige as to avoid death. you didn't want to be the guy who forever after was known as "the guy who found out you couldn't fly with a concrete block tied to the tailwheel."

I can say of my various in-flight "problems" where I did the pre-flight that not one could have been prevented/avoided by any realistic pre-flight. I think the idea that every in-flight trouble can be avoided by the right kind of pre-flight is nonsense. This is why you want your systems to be as simple as possible. My preference has always been to get the plane on the ground first and then troubleshoot, although most times that hasn't been practical, but if you're flying low altitude, you won't have any time to troubleshoot.

I'm also here to write this because a couple of things that were found on pre-flights by me, or the PIC would likely have put us in a field (had there been one) not far from the runway.

The least comfortable, was where I "assumed" a preflight had been done. It hadn't and the fuel was not where the PIC thought and when the low fuel pressure klaxon went off, we couldn't find it. we did a very quick return to the field, landed and when the tail came down, the engines quit and we got to push the plane to the ramp - with 50 gallons in the "other" tanks. There was an aluminum shelf just below knee level under the panel and from the point that the horn went on, i spent the rest of the flight trying to figure out what to do with my legs if we went into the trees. I think this is why I like singles better than twins. I would much rather a big engine be first at the scene of the accident.

I also have a lengthy tale about my first sailplane flight dual (West Bend, WI) with Gunther Voltz, retired Messershmitt factory pilot - how he picked off-airport landing sites. If anyone wants to read it, just ask.

[hank jarrett]

I would! Maybe we should start a thread on flying stories. It would be interesting reading for those interested and we could liable the ones to do with WW-1 (cause I would read them all).
I would really like to hear Fred Murrins story straight from him (actually ALL of his flying stories would be good!). Who wouldn't like a flight report from Fred on his "just like the originals" planes? Both the ones that were routine and "exciting" would be great reading.
Hank

[j ferguson]

regrettably, none of my stories involves WW1 aircraft.

likely they shouldn't be on this forum.