Airdrome Airplanes Sopwith Pup Project

Bookmaker · 9 September 2009, 12:56 PM

OOPS, I guess Hank is who I should have addressed the question to.

Hank?

Brad · 9 September 2009, 03:11 PM

I think it is actually a Nieuport 23... the builder is Rick Bennett, the editor (I think he still is) of the Great War Aero newsletter. Done in Belgian colors.

He shouldn't fly that plane... it is a work of art!

Look up "Rick Bennett Nieuport" in google and you'll find quite a bit.

And check out www.gwaero.org (The full name is technically Great War Aeroplanes Association.) I'd say I'm a member... but I forgot to renew! lol I need to do that.

Brad · 9 September 2009, 03:38 PM

Here's a link to a pic... that's Rick in uniform looking away from the camera...

259 Graham Lee Nieuport 23 - Rick Bennett

hank jarrett · 9 September 2009, 05:29 PM

I have a whole file of photos of Rick's plane. Lucky timing, I just found a box of old hard drives and one file on one is labeled "Ricks Nieuport".
Once you are actually next to his plane it's hard to stop doing two things, drooling and pushing the shutter release. The number of details are just unbelievable, anything to make it look more like the original. In flight it can't be told from original except from the front when you are looking for the engine inside the cowl (which is really hard to see in, unlike a Nie. 11.)
I'm in "mid sort" of the hard drives and will try and pull off the pictures of Rick's plane first.
Hank

Bookmaker · 9 September 2009, 06:01 PM

Did Rick have it at DPR in 2007? It looks familiar from the outside. I was curious to see more of the build work if possible. Very nice.

RAF56_Ball · 9 September 2009, 10:25 PM

Hank,

I see where you are going. I was thinking more of aggressive vesus panic mode. You're right, that could change a lot.

I know the Stark's used a single brake handle with no differential on the Morane 'L'; not sure about Sharon's DH-2. Steering has been no problem with the tail-wheel and these short light birds.

Even so, what about using twin hand brakes mounted on, say, the column or the 'spade handle' of something like the Pup? I bet most of us have ridden bikes with twin brakes. I know it would work, but how odd would it feel? The immediate negatives would be "what about throttle control", and "how do I hold it for run-up?"

But is does make a starting point, and the mechanicals would be much easier, I think.

Brad · 10 September 2009, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAF56_Ball

Hank,

I see where you are going. I was thinking more of aggressive vesus panic mode. You're right, that could change a lot.

I know the Stark's used a single brake handle with no differential on the Morane 'L'; not sure about Sharon's DH-2. Steering has been no problem with the tail-wheel and these short light birds.

Even so, what about using twin hand brakes mounted on, say, the column or the 'spade handle' of something like the Pup? I bet most of us have ridden bikes with twin brakes. I know it would work, but how odd would it feel? The immediate negatives would be "what about throttle control", and "how do I hold it for run-up?"

But is does make a starting point, and the mechanicals would be much easier, I think.

The problem I see with twin hand brakes is simply that it is not really intuitive. You need to be able to react quickly if you are using brakes for "panic steering." Toe brakes allow that, as just an extension of the movement you already make. (I even think heel brakes are a bit of a problem there- you have to move your foot to the brake if they are "Cub style" where with toe brakes your foot is already in position... and you are less likely to "accidentally" apply braking with toe brakes, assuming they are positioned correctly.) Others of course may disagree.

ECramer · 10 September 2009, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hank jarrett

I have a whole file of photos of Rick's plane. Lucky timing, I just found a box of old hard drives and one file on one is labeled "Ricks Nieuport".
Once you are actually next to his plane it's hard to stop doing two things, drooling and pushing the shutter release. The number of details are just unbelievable, anything to make it look more like the original. In flight it can't be told from original except from the front when you are looking for the engine inside the cowl (which is really hard to see in, unlike a Nie. 11.)
I'm in "mid sort" of the hard drives and will try and pull off the pictures of Rick's plane first.
Hank

Amen to that. I met Rick at the K.C. Dawn Patrol's annual event a couple of years ago. His old-fashioned airspeed indicator (it's a vaned spring that hangs on a strut) is as cool in detail as the plane is in total. His build is simply artistry.

hank jarrett · 10 September 2009, 05:38 AM

I have heel brakes in my Taylorcraft (REALLY SMALL little pedals!) and have never had any problem using them. Of course I learned in a Taylorcraft and they were really the first type brake I ever used in an airplane.
I don't think I would try the twin handles on the stick. There is that decision point where you need to pick between shoving the throttle forward and hard braking. I wouldn't want to move a hand from the stick to the throttle at that point. I also don't care for any kind of proportioning valve because of the complexity.
Rick has a tail skid on his plane and steers with differential braking and rudder. From what it looks like I think he probably has full rudder in by the time he hits any brakes with his set up. I'm not sure how he does his run-ups but if he lifts his feet up a bit he could press both brake handles at the same time without moving the rudder bar (don't really care about the rudder when you aren't moving). He reads this list and I would like to hear his experience and how his system has worked. He seems to be pretty much OK with others stealing his ideas.
Hank

Brad · 10 September 2009, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hank jarrett

I have heel brakes in my Taylorcraft (REALLY SMALL little pedals!) and have never had any problem using them. Of course I learned in a Taylorcraft and they were really the first type brake I ever used in an airplane.
I don't think I would try the twin handles on the stick. There is that decision point where you need to pick between shoving the throttle forward and hard braking. I wouldn't want to move a hand from the stick to the throttle at that point. I also don't care for any kind of proportioning valve because of the complexity.
Rick has a tail skid on his plane and steers with differential braking and rudder. From what it looks like I think he probably has full rudder in by the time he hits any brakes with his set up. I'm not sure how he does his run-ups but if he lifts his feet up a bit he could press both brake handles at the same time without moving the rudder bar (don't really care about the rudder when you aren't moving). He reads this list and I would like to hear his experience and how his system has worked. He seems to be pretty much OK with others stealing his ideas.
Hank

I suspect he's ok with other's "stealing" his ideas too. His tubing press and some other stuff are on the KC Dawn Patrol page... (including the airspeed indicator I think.) His landing gear plans are on GWAERO... I think the airspeed indicator is there too...