Airdrome Airplanes Sopwith Pup Project

snj5 · 4 November 2009, 09:04 AM

Sounds terrific!
Looking forward to photos!!

What are you using as PC-10 and 'covered linen' colour?

RAF56_Ball · 10 November 2009, 10:58 AM

sorry, got the "crud" over the weekend - picked it up at a conference!
Am exploring the color issue for PC 10, but there is a shade of Glidden's latex that may work well as is. Want to do a test patch first. Dick Stark used it on the DH-2, IIRC, so picture that from Dayton.
I would love to do the underside of the wings with a slightly tinged clear coat, but all of the glues have a color - nasty ones like pink and pale green. Very unmanly - I mean nonmilitary.
So I am thinking of doing them in the same color as the Pup there at Robert's place. It looked okay. Even his "PC-10" was not too bad, looking rather faded, but I want a little of the green tinge left in it, or a bit darker brown (i.e. not to the point of oxidized look) would be okay.

snj5 · 10 November 2009, 12:23 PM

Thanks

I am looking at Behr 360F-7 "Olive Shadow" for PC-10 and on the bottom Behr UL 1 50 1 1 Sand Pearl or preferably Ralph Lauren NA 21 "Muslin", all from Home Depot.

Another effect you may remember from Dayton on the small Eindecker was the use of a clear overspray with just a tinge of black for the metal surfaces. (see attached). To me this gave an effective dull weathered look while providing a protective coating. I think this may allso be the ticket for an overspray over the Muslin undersides.

I will be at the "House of Pain" doing my builder assist for 5 days starting Thursday, so should have some photos soon. I am anticipating an interesting discussion on airfoil choices.

Brad · 11 November 2009, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snj5

Thanks

I am looking at Behr 360F-7 "Olive Shadow" for PC-10 and on the bottom Behr UL 1 50 1 1 Sand Pearl or preferably Ralph Lauren NA 21 "Muslin", all from Home Depot.

Another effect you may remember from Dayton on the small Eindecker was the use of a clear overspray with just a tinge of black for the metal surfaces. (see attached). To me this gave an effective dull weathered look while providing a protective coating. I think this may allso be the ticket for an overspray over the Muslin undersides.

I will be at the "House of Pain" doing my builder assist for 5 days starting Thursday, so should have some photos soon. I am anticipating an interesting discussion on airfoil choices.

I remember that bird... it has some deviation from Robert's standard kit... IMHO it is the best looking of the "ultralight-ish" Eindecker replicas that I've seen. Sorry, the name of the builder escapes me... but it is a BEAUTIFUL bird.

WinterHawke · 15 November 2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I remember that bird... it has some deviation from Robert's standard kit... IMHO it is the best looking of the "ultralight-ish" Eindecker replicas that I've seen. Sorry, the name of the builder escapes me... but it is a BEAUTIFUL bird.

I believe that would be Eric William's Eindekker:

RAF56_Ball · 26 November 2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

Hank,

What I was trying to describe is essentially the same thing, except the handles (pedals) mounted to the rudder bar so you can engage both to stop without any difficulty, and still have differential braking, no matter the position of the rudder bar.

See the little "sketch" attached for the general idea.

I was reexamining this picture. It really is an effective design, Brad, very well done. The addition of looping the cables to the middle for clearance is a nice touch. I may change mine over to this system this winter.

RAF56_Ball · 26 November 2009, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpinjan

What are you using as a finish coat, dope? I can help get you with a color chip....Jan

Jan, or anyone out there, could I get a color chip from you? I get my mail at the office,
1500 Merrill Ave. Suite 201
Wausau, WI 54401

Would some of you please comment on some color chips for me?

I am planning on using the stewart Systems for covering which allows the use of good quality latex paint. As SNJ pointed out, the color of the first Pup does not look right. Just went to Home Depot and got the color chips he suggested, plus a couple of others:

Behr Products
710C-1 Parchment Paper or possibly the 710C-2 Raffia Cream (a bit lighter than the UL150-11)
360F-7 (with a superscript 'D') Ground Cover is a darker color.

Just got my covering material from Jim & Dondi Miller, with the most recent color card from Poly-Fiber (card 50-B for reference). Here are two colors I am wondering about for PC-10:
212 Oak Green (this seems to be pretty close to one of the early to mid fade tones, fairly dark color)
208A Federal Green (Federal 24064 green).

Am looking through the old threads for the numbers for PC-10. I recall getting it here when I was painting an SE-5a model.

snj5 · 26 November 2009, 11:33 AM

Will run to Home Depot tomorrow to check those other colors out, esp 360F-7, Ground Color.

Another minor point, I am going with a darker blue on the roundels and rudder
Will also be using a Varathane Dark Oak stain on visible wood.
We are planning on veneering the struts as well, similar to the KC team.

Does anyone know if you can clear overspray latex? If so with what product?
I am more impressed the the clear/black overspray effect on Eric William's Eindecker every time I see it.

snj5 · 26 November 2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAF56_Ball

Wings are now complete. next is to install the fuel and electric systems, oil tank, firewall and stringers, then cover this beast!

What did you do for an electrical system? Did you also add a sump pump and avionics?

RAF56_Ball · 26 November 2009, 12:28 PM

Russ, here is a link to a thread about PC-10.
PC 10, CDL & varnish - Mythbusting
Dan-San makes some very good points, and if you are doing an RFC/RAF Camel scheme after April '07, I recommend the more chocolate brown look for authenticity. The paints early on were rather greener, but changed sometime in 1916 or early '17, if I am reading correctly. If you are doing an RNAS scheme (which joined with RFC to become RAF), then a greener color is what the Admiralty used.
Also, the RFC and I it seems the RAF paints were a rather glossed finish, turning more matt/dull as they aged, so depending on how you want it to look, keep that in mind as well.
Also, talked with Robert re: the Pup’s paint job. They used the premium grade and a single coat. It only took a gallon of paint to do the Pup. As I think about it, it is in a pseudo RNAS scheme, so the color may be right. I am looking in to that.
The regular numbers are the premium grade. The UL is the 'Ultra', which has primer in it. (Behr paints can be mixed in any of the colors, so no problem), I plan on using the 'Premium' exterior. Here are two more of the Behr colors to consider for that darker brown:
UL 160-22(superscript 'D') - cacao
UL 160-23(superscript 'D') - Espresso Bean
I am planning to paint color over a single coat (which is a cross coat in reality) of a plain black ot optimize U/V protection. I am writing to Dick Starks first, though, as he and Sharon did a lot of research on this, and we may only need the single color layer. I would not spray a clear over the Behr, unless you find something to the contrary. It would be easier to do any repairs if you even went with two coats to make it better protected. Just my thoughts at this point.