160 hp Gnome Rotary 9N for Sopwith Camel

[Snoopy]

Hello. I am planning to build a Sopwith Camel using Replicraft plans. However, I need an engine, and I would prefer the 160 hp Gnome Rotary 9N. Unfortunately, my funds are very limited, so if anyone knows of an engine for sale with a reasonably low price, please let me know. I am willing to restore just about anything!

Thanks.

[Joe Perkel]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Hello. I am planning to build a Sopwith Camel using Replicraft plans. However, I need an engine, and I would prefer the 160 hp Gnome Rotary 9N. Unfortunately, my funds are very limited, so if anyone knows of an engine for sale with a reasonably low price, please let me know. I am willing to restore just about anything!

Thanks.

Welcome to the forum,....Snoopy?

Your question is troublesome in that you may not be aware of what may be required (financially speaking) of an original Camel build. An F.2b replica (albeit two place), with original wings, a 4130 tube fuselage, and a relatively modern Ranger inversion cost > 80k to produce well over a decade ago. I myself, have allocated a target cost of precisely that amount with the same configuration which may in fact be wishful thinking.

This is expensive business unfortunately, turning a blind eye to that fact does not soften the blow.

My apologies if my response appears terse, it is my intention to orient the unitiated to the realities involved.

[Snoopy]

I understand. However, I'm only looking for an engine. Also, I saw that a Gnome Rotary sold a few months ago for slightly over 20k. Considering that the price of a new Rotec radial engine is at least 15k, the price difference between the two is not much. Either way, all I'm looking for is a rotary engine with a price lower than 20k. I would be completely satisfied with a pile of rusty pieces, if I really had no other option.

[Leatherhead]

Snoopy,

I don't believe you will find a Gnome (or any rotary) for less than $20,000 unless it's complete junk. If you are refering to the Gnome that sold earlier this year on E-bay by one of our fellow forum-ites, I think the final price was somewhere between $26,000-$29,000. That's what I've heard. The guy that sold it is a member here, so I guess he can provide a dollar amount if he so chooses. It would be helpful to establish some type of "going rate" of what the market will support.

I've been looking for a 110hp Le Rhone for 2+ years. Everything I've seen or heard about has been in the $30,000-$35,000 range, and it gets more every year. When I first started thinking about a rotary about 4-5 years ago, they were in the $15,000-$20,000 range. As you can see.......they are not getting any cheaper. Also, if your name isn't Peter Jackson or Javier Arrango, it's going to be tough to get to the seller first. Those two guys have their "peeps" searching every day for this stuff.

[robotz991]

Best of luck.... I'll be looking for pics

[snj5]

Yes - good luck!! I looked for a while and found none, and Mr. Freeman at Kingsbury also mentioned the $35K range to me. But that was not what finally swayed me away from rotaries.

I finally did settle on a Rotec when I learned you really can't use a radio with a authentic rotary due to RF signature (so I'm told), and in my flying environment post 9/11 a no radio plane is a difficult thing. Also, I needed to launch by myself and most FBOs that you may drop in on don't carry castor oil anymore.

Anyway, good luck with your project and all the best!

[Snoopy]

Thanks. I'm definitely not going to give up hope. I guess it will just take a little longer to get a rotary engine. Fortunately, I live in a rural area, away from class B, C, and D airspace, so I should be fine without a radio. Anyway, thanks again for the help, and if you see anything, please let me know!

[Joe Perkel]

Originally Posted by Snoopy

Thanks. I'm definitely not going to give up hope. I guess it will just take a little longer

Not at all my intention,...my intention, (as it is usually) is informational in nature, either giving or receiving. It is the very nature (or should be) of a builders forum. Ex,..You are of aware of something that I have not considered,..you share it with me and the group.

These projects, (although costly) are not completely out of the reach of the wage earning public, planning and discipline, are what's required. For example, a $100K project can be divided not only by hours, but by annual cost of materials.

10 years = 10k
20 years = 5k
30 years = 3.3k

Another approach, (which was both my inferred suggestion as well as plan), is to defer the single largest cost (power), to the very end of the project where financing the engine purchase may be a viable option for a relatively short period if resale is an inevitability.

[hector]

Originally Posted by Joe Perkel

Welcome to the forum,....Snoopy?

Your question is troublesome in that you may not be aware of what may be required (financially speaking) of an original Camel build. An F.2b replica (albeit two place), with original wings, a 4130 tube fuselage, and a relatively modern Ranger inversion cost > 80k to produce well over a decade ago. I myself, have allocated a target cost of precisely that amount with the same configuration which may in fact be wishful thinking.

This is expensive business unfortunately, turning a blind eye to that fact does not soften the blow.

My apologies if my response appears terse, it is my intention to orient the unitiated to the realities involved.

Hi Joe
No offence, but I think that your estimate of $80k for building a repro is somewhat out, my guess would be around $15-20k for an accurate repro "sans engine & instruments" if you can do most of the work yourself, & even that price is based on the material costs here in the UK "£200 per cubic foot of spruce board, £25 per yard of T45 tube & £20-£80 per yard for steel sheet", the most expensive parts "not inc engine or instruments" are the turnbuckles which cost £30-£60 each which equates to about £3,500 "unless you can make them yourself".
I try not to think too much about the overall costs, & just buy material etc as & when I can afford it.
All the best.
Bob.

[snj5]

While here at the rainy Dayton Fly-in, got to meet Fred Murrin, great guy, and get an amazing education on flying a rotary from a guy that does it. Without going into too much detail, if you like engines, it sounds like great fun - so different as you are controlling it so differently than is our norm.