Problems with aeroforum.org?

John McKenzie · 4 October 2009, 08:28 AM

Just for the record , . Cole Palen died ....Whereas as I understand it , from an ex- member of the board ( and correct me if I am wrong , with a "genuine explanation of what transpired" ) ;... Leo " left " because he was effectively out-voted by those who thought they could do a better job , which made his position untenable ,.... this current mess is the result .

Times also changed during all those years that Leo was at the helm...But HE kept it going ...Sometimes things change because "people" force the changes ,..could be that he who bends it , is not necessarily the best person to mend it ....I havn't heard much support for the new "on line" way , as against the tried and tested original (Sucessfull ) method of hard copy ( and even that was messed with ..see above ) ...and anyone who is not au fait with computers ( and most of the , older? people who are primarily builders, have just picked up a bit on computers ), or ,those who don't have one , are just not going to bother ,...especially if the present confusing situation doesnt change.... toute suit !..or even sooner !

John

Jon18 · 4 October 2009, 11:16 AM

I'm on the board, and I'm also a paying member of WW1 Aero, Inc. so I can truly sympathize with many of the statements here. I also prefer a print edition but you must understand at this point there isn't enough money to do it. The decision to go digital was by force due to finances. I wasn't there to witness the downward spiral, or to witness exactly how it unfolded or what the factors were, but when I came on board it was already in full effect and going digital was the only option to remain operational.

I don't know if your quote about Leo is true or not, but I'm taking it at face value and calling BS, since I'm on the inside and have never heard anything about Leo's departure that gives your statement any credibility whatsoever. I'd say the situation was more like a ship without a captain, followed by a scramble, followed by this mess. I don't know anyone on the board who was happy to see Leo go or thought they could do a better job, it is in fact quite the opposite. If you've read some of the exchanges between the board and members on the aeroforum, this position will become even more apparent.

Have there been mistakes on the board's part...certainly. I have my issues with everything that's going on as well, and there are things I'd like to see happen that I can't do on my own, but I can honestly tell you that everyone on the board loves the journals and wants to see them survive, but you must understand that we are not Leo, even though we all want to stay true to his vision, there are always going to be differences when leadership changes.

We are aware of the accessibility issues with a digital format, and I want to see the journals go back to a print edition as well, ASAP. I'm doing my part to get the ball rolling and get things back on track, and I'm also pushing for more communication between the board and members so you know what we're facing and what we're doing. Hopefully this will help stem the tide of personal insults, gossip and unsubstantiated nonsense that have permeated threads dealing with WW1 Aero. I know many of you have money tied up with subscriptions to our organization (as do I) and that we've let many of you down. I'm sorry that we haven't been as straight with you as you deserve, but please understand that we are working to fix these issues.
More info will be forthcoming.

Jonathan Fallon

John McKenzie · 4 October 2009, 01:44 PM

As in your own words , ".. you wern't there till later or around to witness the downward spiral " , .... yet you say , you are taking it at face value ,( which you clearly are Not ! ) , and so you call this " BS " !! !....Looking at your statement regarding your talk of " Insults " etc....I think perhaps that it is YOU, who are guilty by your own words above .

In order to dispell such " BS , and insulting unsubstantiated nonesence and gossip" ,....Prey tell us , " as one who is on the inside " ,...."exactly" WHY then , did Leo did "just happened to resign" ? ...and just before the 200th issue ?.

....You do also say later that you haven't been as strait with us as we deserve ......What is that supposed to convey ?...

" Number 2" .....You have written a lot , But realy you have said Nothing !

Regards John

John McKenzie · 4 October 2009, 02:12 PM

P S ...On the financial front ... If there is not enough money left , then TELL us ( preferably before its too late ) and put up the subscription to an amount that DOES makes the publication viable , (Bearing in mind the low volume etc.) ...
IMHO....
We dont need a fancy " Coffee table " style magazines , with expensive paper , card covers or whatever .....Just a simple , maybe smaller , but more focused on what it was when it was more sucessfull , " Stapled together" old format type , ...Just say a members Photo on the front ....Basicaly a Journal that is and becomes as a part of an archive , which is mainly there to be USED , Again and again .
Regards John

Jon18 · 4 October 2009, 03:40 PM

Bear in mind that these are my words, and I'm not representing the board's viewpoints here.

That said...

A question for you to ponder...Why the hell would someone say they could do a better job than Leo when they didn't have a plan in place to keep things going and grow the organization? You saw yourself what happened after he left. Do you think we wanted to give ourselves this reputation or ruin our relationship with members? What do you take us for, a bunch of fools? What I have heard over and over again is that Leo wanted out, and I know he still keeps in touch with members of the board and is more than willing to put in his two cents. In fact we received an email from him reviewing the last issue. I for one would love to have him back. Why don't you ask him to come back and lead? See what his response is and then let us know. If he wanted to come back there would be no argument here. If he says that he was forced out by people who said they could do better, then you'll have me eating crow and I'll be more than happy to come on this forum and apologize to you. Until then, I'd have to be a complete moron to dismiss the claims of people I know and work with to side with someone who has an unsubstantiated claim from an unnamed source.

Your guilt statement makes no sense. I didn't come on here insulting the hard work of others. I simply said that within the current board, there is no proof to back up your claim. Perhaps you found my words abrasive, but I'm sick and tired of people spreading lies and gossip with absolutely no proof whatsoever. Everything is hearsay. Perhaps board members who have since resigned subscribed to your claim, but since I work with the people within the current board, I know that is not the case with them. If it was I'd have no problem telling you. However, I'm not going to stand by here and let lies and accusations fly around without coming on here and nipping them in the bud. The problem is that there are several people on these forums that want nothing more than to gossip about people without offering a single encouraging word or suggestion as to how and fix things. So I ask you, what would you do in our situation?

Tell you there's no money? THERE'S NO MONEY. Our financial problems were published in the last issue and have been posted on our website for months. We cannot offer new subscriptions and collect money from people when we can't get the issues out on time, or even assure the survival of the organization. That would be completely unfair. Unfortunately there are many outstanding subscriptions (including my own) that are hanging in the air, and I want to work to fix that. I want you to be happy, and I want the members to be happy, but as I said before: I cannot do everything on my own.
Just because I subscribe to certain views doesn't mean that I can force them on the rest of the board. I need their support as well.

As far as being straight with everyone, I believe there has been a complete lack of communication between the board as a whole and the members. I've been complaining about this and I'm trying to pitch ideas to keep everyone informed so you don't have to come on these threads asking what's going on. That's unfair to you and reflects badly on us. However, I believe one of the problems has been indecisiveness among the board as to handling this situation. We don't want to tell you one thing and then do another. As a board we completely suck at communication and I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'm sincerely sorry for our lack of communication and for losing your trust. We've asked for a lot of patience from our members and we've failed on many fronts, but I'm still hoping we can fix things so WW1 Aero, Inc. continues into the future.

Laserlloyd · 4 October 2009, 04:26 PM

Hi don't know what this is all about but I got this email from them yesterday.

Hello, AeroForum Members,
As you have no doubt noticed if you've tried to log in these past few days, AeroForum is having intermittent outages. We are doing forum maintenance and trying to resolve some longstanding issues with the databases and hope to be solidly reliable again within a week or so. Thanks for your understanding.

Best,
cfgray
AeroForum Administrator

krowerke · 4 October 2009, 05:33 PM

okay, got my answer--the aeroforum site is [temporarily, i hope] tango uniform...got it. in my case it prevents me from getting my daily dose of achim engels' work, which i seem to need. if i don't get to look at his spectacular work every day, i get cranky. i hope the site is back up soon. meantime, as in the ORA and FTS threads here, there seems to be a lot of sniping. could we just give the good people that take the immense responsibilities of webmaster and publisher on, the benefit of good will and civil courtesy? just asking...

Jon18 · 4 October 2009, 06:44 PM

There's no point in arguing, and I extend my apologies if I'm coming off like I'm on the warpath. I'm really not, just frustrated.

John McKenzie · 5 October 2009, 01:43 AM

Yes Jon' , Quite so.. . No point in arguing .I only said what I'd heard and stated that I was willing to be corrected by the true story ..(no insults thrown ) As to any sugestions etc. , I did offer my thoughts in posts 8 and 14 .This WWI Aero was originaly for builders , restorers and those interested . By widening the content to be all encompasing , you risk ( almost have lost !) loosing the very people it was originaly aimed at .If you look at say Cross & Cockade GB , Again 4 issues per year . Nice clear photos and related articles ...But they have kept the original concept .If you steer the content towards other fields of interest , then you set yourself up with more in competition in the harsh financial realities of today , with so many publications such as Windsock , scale models etc.etc. (models ) .OTF , C&C etc (historians mainly ? ) Etc Etc........However ,there is / was no other publication dedicated to the same sphere of WWI - As " Aero" was ....Maybe a return to the " Old Way " might be worth considering ..?......Just telling it as I see it .
Regards John.

FOKKERJ · 5 October 2009, 02:04 AM

I would agree that a stapled together and portable version can go anywhere.
I am still fairly new to computers and don't have a lap-top.
I also enjoy the old fashioned custom of holding a paper medium in my hands anywhere I happen to be. It's not like I have a computer in my "Reading Room"!

Best Wishes, Jay

P.S. I have a P.M. about concerns that I have raised earlier in this Thread that I do need to answer. I don't want anyone to think that I have forgotten their generous time spent on me.

Perhaps it would cost less to publish if it were pared down to the "Wants and Needs" of Builders. Just a thought.
I do highly recomend the "MASTER's LIST".