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Camouflage, Colors and Markings Topics related to Camouflage, Colors and Markings of WWI aircraft

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Old 10 July 2005, 05:56 PM   #21
jumpinjan
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Dan-San,
The closest link to your's is the Mark Miller's article link
http://www.wwi-models.org/misc/Colors/German/loz2/

Wait.....I found it:
http://www.wwi-models.org/misc/Color...2/Allan_T.html

I should have my Methuen handbook back later this week.
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Old 10 July 2005, 06:18 PM   #22
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Dan, no problem -- these kinds of projects always take a few go-rounds before settling into a productive routine. Regarding your replies:

1. I've got a full scan of the handbook including all of the text, so I'll have to do the reading about color extrapolation past F. I'll work on this in the next day or two.

2. My only point in posting the samples in this format was to get your opinion about whether I was even in the ballpark or not regarding the colors. No point in developing a lot of detailed reference material that's all wrong. Since it sounds like the colors shown in these samples aren't too far off, I'll work up a reference card using them & post.

3. Once we've got the reference cards worked out, I'd like to work up a large-format fabric sample of each one, complete with texturing. These small swatches don't really do justice to the pattern since the texture is outsized for the size of the lozenges. Also, I'm limited by the 50K size limit for message attachments. Believe me, we can do far better than these.

4. I'll send you my mail address -- check your email.

5. Looks like Jan just found the lost link to Toelle's pages. I'll look at these tonight.
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Old 10 July 2005, 06:33 PM   #23
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Gretag MacBeth Conversion program

Jan, there do seem to be some probelms with the Munsell conversion program from GMB. The RGB and Lab values it generates look OK; the CMYK values are not. I've dropped the author a note to see if he will explain how he intended the CMYK values to be used.
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Old 11 July 2005, 05:29 PM   #24
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Alan Toelle's colors.

Jan an Patrick:
We need to identify, code and match the colors of the right hand upper and lower 5 color patterns. When that is done Item 2 is complete.
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Old 12 July 2005, 12:58 AM   #25
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Pattern 2 - Day Upper, Dark

A. Dull Blue - 23D4
B. Purplish Grey - 13E2
C. Greyish Turquoise - 24E4
D. Dull Green - 28D4
E. Olive Brown - 4D4

Two examples attached below (click to enlarge).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg AT-5 Color Day Upper Dark-1-20050711.jpg (45.6 KB, 333 views)
File Type: jpg AT-5 Color Day Upper Dark-1T-20050711.jpg (43.4 KB, 268 views)
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Old 12 July 2005, 11:33 AM   #26
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Item 2. Printed fabric, 5 color ,day upper, dark.

Patrick:
That is right on, except "B" which is closer to 14D3 and "E" which is closer 5D4. Jan, I would like your input also. We also need the RBG values for each color. We are moving!
Next, the 5 color day lower printed fabric.
We have been calling this printed fabric, "lozenge" which is an improper term, a lozenge is a four sided polygon sitting on a point, like a diamond in playing cards. Lets start calling these patterns, irregular polygons. They are not regular polygons, such as a square, triangle, pentagon, hexagon, etc. the are irregular in form, and the are polygons. To be precise, they are 4 and 5 color irregular polygons printed on fabric in a repeating pattern.
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Old 12 July 2005, 01:10 PM   #27
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I think I tried those & was not satisfied with the result (as compared to Alan Toelle's image), but I'll run them again tonight & post. I have all of the corresponding Munsell codes & RGB numbers noted; will post them just as soon as we've settled on the colors (I find that if you start publishing this data before it's finalized, it takes on a life of it's own. Years later, you're stuck trying to explain why one of the early formulations that somebody stumbled across is incorrect).

Jan, I'm corresponding with the engineer who wrote the Munsell Conversion program at Gretag MacBeth. So far, I'm pretty confident of the accuracy of the RGB & Lab values that the app generates from Munsell codes; the CMYK values definitely have problems (at least when used in PhotoShop) & we're trying to figure out why.
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Old 12 July 2005, 11:09 PM   #28
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Dan, attached are two examples using your suggested colors for "B" and "E":

A. Dull Blue - 23D4
B. Greyish Magenta - 14D3
C. Greyish Turquoise - 24E4
D. Dull Green - 28D4
E. Dark Blonde - 5D4

Your recommendation for "E" is spot-on. It is a near-perfect match to Alan Toelle's image. The "B" pick is less successful. I did try this one originally, also, 14D2 and another one or two in the same range. I feel that the plate itself is wrong for this match -- the magenta comes through too strongly.

Following this message, I'll post another with my current favorite. It's the same as my original except for using your recommendation for "E".
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSA-AT-5 Color Day Upper Dark-1-20050712.jpg (44.9 KB, 177 views)
File Type: jpg DSA-AT-5 Color Day Upper Dark-1T-20050712.jpg (42.8 KB, 147 views)
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Old 12 July 2005, 11:17 PM   #29
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I think this set comes closest to Toelle's image. The Dull Blue is just a bit brighter, and the Purplish Grey a bit darker than Toelle's colors, but after trying other Methuen codes these seem to be the closest. The "C", "D" and "E" colors are near-exact matches.

A. Dull Blue - 23D4
B. Purplish Grey - 13E2
C. Greyish Turquoise - 24E4
D. Dull Green - 28D4
E. Dark Blonde - 5D4
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PD-AT-5 Color Day Upper Dark-1-20050712.jpg (42.9 KB, 150 views)
File Type: jpg PD-AT-5 Color Day Upper Dark-1T-20050712.jpg (42.4 KB, 130 views)
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Old 13 July 2005, 11:31 AM   #30
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Item 2. Five Color Day upper Pattern, Dark.

Patrick:
I want Jan's input. The color for 14D3, you missed, it is too light, it is close to 15C3. I would like to see 14D3 in the pattern, save your 13D3.
Then we will decide. As it is It is fairly close. Lets take a look at, Item 3. Five color Day Lower Pattern, Light.
I have taken a look at what alan has for the five color lower fabric. He has,
1. "A" Oriental Blue 22D5.
2. "B" Greyish Violet 15C4
3. "C" Greyish turquoise, 24C3.
4. "D" Greyish magenta 13C4.
5. "E" Ochre 5C6.
I would like to see this pattern.
Jump in Jan.
Blue skies,
Dan-San.
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