









|
| 2001 Closed threads from 2001 (read only) |
2 September 2001, 11:04 AM
|
#1
|
|
Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,979
|
During WW1 Germany changed the ´style´ of the Iron Cross five times between spring 1917 and summer 1918. The Allies never did something like this (except the British change from the Union Jack to Roundels in 1914).
What was the reason for these changes (camouflage, intelligence reports, etc.)?
Thanks in advance!
Volker Nemsch
__________________
Best regards from Germany
Volker Nemsch
"My words came out fine. The problem is that they were incorrectly processed by your brain."
(???)
"Much to learn, you still have."
(Yoda)
"I never said all that shit!"
(Confucius)
|
|
|
4 September 2001, 01:26 PM
|
#2
|
|
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,118
|
GERMAN NATIONAL MARKINGS.
Part 1
* * Thank GOD Idflieg made all the changes to the national insignia, It becomes a very useful tool in identifying when photographs were taken. *It provides brackets in and for time.
* * Just before the war, on 20 April 1914, the Fliegertruppe adopted a 1/2 to 1 meter black chordwise stripe at the mid point of the wing panels. *At mobilization on 1 August 1914, Idflieg instructed the Feld Flieger Abteilungen, (Field Flying Detachments) to paint a black straight sided cross at the mid point of the wing panels on both sides of the wings and on both sides of the rudder. *A telegram was sent to the aircraft manufacturers, instructing them to paint curve style Iron Crosses in the appropriate places on the wings and rudder. The serial number was to be moved to the fin or fuselage sides. *The Idflieg directive, was without specific dimensions or form, each factory came up with their own curve style cross form. *At this time all military vehicles, including aircraft were painted Field Grey. *
* * Because of the lack of contrast, between the Field Grey wings and rudder, and the black cross, Idflieg
ordered, sometime in September or October 1914, that a square white field be painted surrounding the black
crosses on both sides of the wing panels and rudder.
* * *On 25 July 1916, Idflieg sent out a directive that dimensionally specified the standard cross form. *The standard Iron Cross was to be painted on a square white cross field, painted on the top surface of the upper wing, near the wing tips; the bottom surface of the lower wing, near the wing tips; on both sides of
the fuselage and rudder.
* * *Idflieg sent out a directive dated 29 October 1916, *instructing Field units and the manufacterers to paint out the white cross fields and leave only 5cm white border surrounding the black Iron Cross. *There was some concern that the white cross fields were being mistaken for allied cockades.
* * *I this form the Iron Cross would be the standard until the introduction of the Balken Kreuze, (Beam
Cross) of 17 March 1918.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *End of Part 1
|
|
|
6 September 2001, 04:26 PM
|
#3
|
|
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,118
|
GERMAN NATIONAL MARKINGS
Part 2.
On 20 March 1918, Idfleig sent out telegram Order 41390 which directed that all aircraft crosses would be the straight cross with a 15 cm white border surrounding black cross. This was the introduction of the balken (beam) style cross. The proportions of the cross was not given. But, this was corrected by a second telegram after several calls and telegrams. The proportion of the was to be: the width to length was 1:4, a cross 1000 mm high and wide would have an arm width of 250 mm and the entire cross would be surrounded with a 150 mm border. The directive stated the rudder was to be painted white with the black beam cross painted on the white rudder. These changes in the crosses were to be carried out no later than 15 April 1918.
The cross form made by the Jasta personnel in the field varied all over the place. Most just drew straight lines fom the tips of the arms resulting in very fat crosses with a ratio of 1:2.5 and some 1:3.
The next change occured on 13 May 1918, was to the Latin Cross with the height to width ratio of 5:4. This cross was a complete new cross with the vertical bar of the cross to be full chord, from leading edge to trailing edge. The length of the horizontal bar was to be 4:5 of the vertical bar. The width of the bar was to be 1:8, and the white border will form right angles between the cross arms, the white border would not enclosed the ends of the cross arms. The width of white border to the bar width will be 1:4, i.e. the vertical height were 1000 mm, the horizontal bar would be 800 mm the bar width would be 125 mm and the white border would 31.25 mm wide.
The final change in the German national markings was on 25 June 1918 when a directive was sent by telegram to all units and manufacturers to change the height to wide ratio from 5:4 to 1:1, the lengths of the vertical and horizontal bars were to be equal lengths. For example the upper wing cross on a Fokker D.VII would be changed from 1600 x 1280 to 1600 x1600 mm, the bar would be 200 mm wide and the white border 50 mm wide.
There were no further changes the German national markings to the end of the war.
End of Part 2.
Dan-San Abbott
|
|
|
7 September 2001, 06:54 AM
|
#4
|
|
Forum Ace of Aces
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,979
|
Thank you very, very much Dan-San!
But why on earth did the German authorities change from the standarised IRON CROSS ( since 29.10.1916 ) to the ´totally new´ BALKENKREUZ ( from 17.03.1918 onward )? To me it seems that all the other little changes had more to do with clarifications of former orders.
For example, a similar case for the British would have been a change from the blue/white/red roundels to a hexagon with the same colours in 1917/18. *
Best regards
Volker Nemsch
__________________
Best regards from Germany
Volker Nemsch
"My words came out fine. The problem is that they were incorrectly processed by your brain."
(???)
"Much to learn, you still have."
(Yoda)
"I never said all that shit!"
(Confucius)
|
|
|
7 September 2001, 01:43 PM
|
#5
|
|
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,118
|
Volker:
Let us complete the question. "Why did Idflieg issue this change for the German national markings on the eve of the Great German Offensive that commenced on 21 March 1918 "THE BATTLE OF FRANCE"?" Half of the German Air FORCE was involved in that offensive! It does not make sense. But, who in the hell ever said war makes sense? ??? : 
Cloudy skies 
Dan-San
|
|
|
8 September 2001, 08:49 AM
|
#6
|
|
Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Randfontein
Posts: 245
|
Could it be that the Balkenkreuz was easier to recognise from the ground? Almost the same idea as the allied invation stripes during WW2? Just a thought.
VBR
Vic
__________________
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy - Benjamin Franklin
|
|
|
8 September 2001, 09:32 AM
|
#7
|
|
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,118
|
Vic:
I think the straight crosses were more identifiable at a greater distance. I believe the Balken cross with the wide border was the most recognizable of all. It provided contrast between the cross and the camouflaged wings. The fuselage and rudder crosses were of neglible value, too small. My opinion. 
Blues skies,
Dan-San
|
|
|
10 September 2001, 04:59 AM
|
#8
|
|
Guest
|
You know, I've often wondered how much the markings play a role in combat.
I've heard that there were days when a pilot, and I believe this is testimony from WW2, never even saw markings at all, just went completely by sillohette (I spelled that wrong, Iknow).
Too, you hear about aircraft attacking aircraft from the same side.
|
|
|
|
10 September 2001, 07:33 AM
|
#9
|
|
Guest
|
>Could it be that the Balkenkreuz was easier to recognise from the ground?
Alot of the early RFC Communiques describe the German markings as a black cross in a white circle, the curved edges to the German marking may have caused am optical effect that appeared circular. Maybe making the cross all 90 degree edged helped differentiate it from the allies circular markings.
cam
|
|
|
|
10 September 2001, 11:34 AM
|
#10
|
|
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,118
|
Cam:
I believe it did, I think the straight balken cross was more identifiable from a greater distance. Somewhere in my files is a study on the German cross prepared by the USAS. I'll have find it and re-read it, it might be pertinate to this discussion.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:56 PM.
|