The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Help
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History


The Aerodrome Forum


Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > Archives > 2001

2001 Closed threads from 2001 (read only)

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20 April 2001, 05:44 AM   #1
Carlos herrera
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Just curious.
What would have been the impact if the Bristol M1C monoplane had been introduced on the Western Front in 1917? Would it have stopped the Albratross
scourge? How would it have fared against the Fokker DVII?
 
Old 20 April 2001, 08:24 AM   #2
Aaron
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Personally I think it would've stacked up well, but due to the prejudice against the monoplane in the RFC hierarchy it never got the chance it deserved. I heard a presentation by Marvin Skelton, one of the Issue Editors/Historian of over the front speak on this prejudice. Seems Trenchard was involved or someone close to him was in a fatal accident in a monoplane. There were investigations, that kind of thing. But the British mind was clouded against the type for some time afterwards (until the mid-30s). I think there is a Datafile on the type Bristol MIC. Can't remember which one now, GRRRR.
 
Old 20 April 2001, 10:49 AM   #3
Michael Skeet
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

The RFC's monoplane prejudice was centred around the relatively high landing speed of monoplane types tested. I've read some arguments that the M1C would have been a handful on the smaller fields the RFC often used on the Western Front.

At a guess, I'd say the Bristol might have proved useful for a few months. But it was lightly armed, and probably overall inferior to the SE-5a. I wouldn't want to have to take on a D-VII in one, even if the Bristol's top speed was as high as some of the published figures.
 
Old 22 April 2001, 03:57 AM   #4
cam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

>What would have been the impact if the
>Bristol M1C monoplane

This is what Williams wrote of it's servcie in Palestine with 14 RFC;

"It was at Belah that we saw the only British monoplane built during the 1914-1918 war that was used on operations - a Bristol single seater. No.14 Squadron RFC shared the aerodrome with us and some of these aircraft were issued to that squadron. Unfortunately several of the pilots who flew them tried to do so in exactly the same way they flew thier biplanes. One mornign after recieving this type a pilot took off and went immediately into a steep climbing turn, side slipped into the ground and was killed. There are always those who are confident they can do better than the other fellow and next morning another pilot tried exactly the same thing with exactly the same result. This together with the fact that the aircraft had not the performance to deal with the Germans opposed to us resulted in its not being perservered with."



cam
AFC - http://members.nbci.com/pointcook/
 
Old 22 April 2001, 04:01 PM   #5
leo
Rest in Peace
 
leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,862

 
Had the bristol monoplane been introduced on the Western Front and assuming that it would have been successful, the germans would have reacted in a way that might have meant there would have been no DVII. Perhaps the DVII would have come out sooner or even the stationary engined V types that Fokker was developing. Another german manufacturer could possibly have come out with a successful monoplane. When one thing changes, perhaps everything changes.

leo
__________________
A.E.I.O.U.
leo is offline  
Old 25 April 2001, 08:16 AM   #6
Vigilant
Forum Ace
 
Vigilant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Devon
Posts: 983

 
I read recently a pursuasive argument that when early fliers talked of a plane "sideslipping into the ground" they were really describing a low level spin. Since the spin was not properly understood even in 1917 these sort of accidents were not properly identified as being spin-related. In addition, because they happened at low level there was not enough time for proper rotation to set in before the aircraft hit the ground. It is surprising how often you spot "sideslip" accidents once you look out for them in contemporary accounts.

(Source: D. Hadley, "Only Seconds to Live" (Airlife 1997) ISBN 1 85310 877 4 - an excellent book on the history of the spin)

Vig.
__________________
Fly a microlight - http://www.bmaa.org
Vigilant is offline  
Old 25 April 2001, 01:28 PM   #7
cam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Vig,

This is the aircraft from the 3rd of August.


if the image doesnt show try looking at; http://users.rcn.com/kymcam/14rfc-m1c.jpg

Apparently the pilot died 8 hours later. Joe Bull wrote in his diary that the engine cut out on the pilot and he tried to turn back to the aerodrome. Maybe he conked the engine trying to adjust the mix soon after take off?

cam
Australian Flying Corps Website
 
Old 26 April 2001, 04:53 AM   #8
Michael Skeet
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Cam wrote:
"Maybe he conked the engine trying to adjust the mix soon after take off?"

Seems likely to me. Everything I've read suggests that rotaries were terribly prone to flooding if the mix wasn't just right. And it was a standard axiom that if your engine went west, you NEVER tried to turn back. Which didn't stop a lot of people from trying same, with predictable results.

Interestingly, that photo suggests to me a survivable crash. Wonder if the pilot wasn't properly belted in.
 
Old 26 April 2001, 06:17 PM   #9
cam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

>Interestingly, that photo suggests to me a >survivable crash. Wonder if the pilot wasn't >properly belted in.

This is the same aircraft from the front after it was recovered.



The damage around the cockpit looks to be worse from the angle of this photo. You can spot the 14 RFC folks in the photo with the British Tropical hat and the 1 AFC folks with the slouche hat.

cam
Australian Flying Corps Website
 
 

Bookmarks

Tags
bristol, m1c, western


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Locations on the Western Front Graeme Other WWI Aviation 6 2 June 2007 03:25 PM
Western Front from the Air Barrett Books and Magazines 6 15 April 2004 05:18 PM
British OOB Western Front MilesC 2001 8 19 December 2001 02:32 PM
Portugese on the Western Front Tom McConnell 2000 5 16 May 2000 07:47 AM


As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1997 - 2023 The Aerodrome