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2002 Closed threads from 2002 (read only)

 
 
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Old 13 October 2001, 07:38 AM   #1
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I'm still gathering data to be used to construct a full size replica Albatros D.Va.

My front burner project is a L.E.A.F. Nieuport 11, to be started when it gets too cold for frequent flying here in NH. However, I have been offered an even trade of my Nieuport 11 kit for a Airdrome Fokker D.VIII kit. I am giving serious thought to this. Can anyone with experience with these replicas offer their opinion on this potential trade?
 
Old 14 October 2001, 06:54 AM   #2
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Hello... [tapping microphone] Is this thing on?

 
Old 15 October 2001, 05:08 AM   #3
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Rex:

Ehhhh, guy, are we talking about full/almost full sized flyable a/c?

If so, I am interested in a air-worthy version of the D-VII. Cost? Power-plant requirements? Scale (if not full-sized)?

Tell me what you know, what you think.

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Old 15 October 2001, 09:08 AM   #4
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Spent the past weekend at the Old Kingsbury Aerodrome in Kingsbury, Texas working on the Fokker D.VII project which should be flying by mid-2002. *I also began constructing wing ribs for the SE5a. *Both of these aircraft are full-scale.
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Old 15 October 2001, 11:13 AM   #5
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Quote:
Rex:

Ehhhh, guy, are we talking about full/almost full sized flyable a/c?

If so, I am interested in a air-worthy version of the D-VII. *Cost? *Power-plant requirements? *Scale (if not full-sized)?

Tell me what you know, what you think.

Shooter sends
Shooter-

Yes, we are talking about full size, flying aircraft!

If you would like a full size D.VII, start here:www.exp-aircraft.com/aircraft/ww1aero/ww1aero.html For $125.00+$5.00 shipping you can get the plans used to construct the Rhinebeck D.VII replica.

Dave Watts is powering his replica with a 260hp Gypsy Queen that costs about $7,000. I would wager that's a little cheaper than the Mercedes 180hp the plans call for. I would imagine the total cost to build would be in the neighborhood of $35,000-$45,000

If you want to do it on the cheap (and kinda ugly) you could look here: http://www.loehle.com/fokkerkit.htm The pictures of their bird don't look very scale, but a real D.VII looking paint job might help that. You could have a pretty fun Walter Mitty machine for around $15,000.
 
Old 15 October 2001, 11:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Spent the past weekend at the Old Kingsbury Aerodrome in Kingsbury, Texas working on the Fokker D.VII project which should be flying by mid-2002. *I also began constructing wing ribs for the SE5a. *Both of these aircraft are full-scale.
How about a few more details, who's plans are you using, what are you using for powerplants? Has Old Kingsbury Aerodrome got a website?
 
Old 15 October 2001, 02:37 PM   #7
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Rex:

Thanks for the info.

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Old 15 October 2001, 06:32 PM   #8
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Shooter:

If you want info on the Airdrome Airplanes designes, go HERE:
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/

Robert Baslee is the designer. I met him at Oshkosh 1998, heck of a nice guy, very helpful and informative. His kits get good reviews, and look pretty doggone good. They are all 75% scale, and generally use 2-stroke Rotax power. (Ok, they aren't ALL 75%, he now offers a full-scale Nieuport kit...)

In the case of the D-VII, it looks pretty good to my untrained eye, EXCEPT: it is wire braced, not cantilever... (not something you can see from a distance!) and the wing thickness of the upper wing doesn't appear to taper like the real thing. Other than that, it looks pretty authentic.

He also has kits for the Dr I, the D VIII, and the E III. The E III and the D VIII are the only 2 that meet the weight requirements to be considered an "Ultralight" under US regs. Ultralights are not registered, and you don't have to be licensed to fly them. They DO have operating restrictions of course.

The E III has 2 "appearance" issues, those being the way he did the suspension on the LG legs, and the fact that he used a single set of flying and landing wires instead of 2 like the original. Otherwise, looks very good. The D VIII has extra wing struts, so it too looks less than 100% authentic, but still very good. Per Dick Starks of the KC Dawn Patrol, that is the best flying one of Baslee's designs. (Read- easiest for an inexperienced pilot to fly.) The Dr I looks pretty authentic, except for the wings being wire braced. I also think the "cheated" on the nose length a bit to make the Dr I and the D VIII balance. That, of course, would not be needed on the E III or the D VII, due to pilot location on the E III and due to the longer nose on the inline engined D VII.

To sum up: If you want a D VII kit "on the cheap," and don't mind that it has wires where it shouldn't, this is a good choice. $4995 for the whole kit, just add engine & prop, instruments, paint, and (ahem!) a "bit" of your time. The D VIII and E III are only $4495 each, and the Triplane is a bit more... $7495. Keep in mind that these are essentially materials kits- you pretty much fabricate everything, although I believe the fittings are pre-welded/machined as needed.

Another alternative is the 87% scale Nieuports 11 from Circa Reproductions. (Graham Lee) This is a very popular design, and is plans built, with essentially the same construction method as the Baslee designs. (basically, Baslee "borrowed" the construction methods from Graham Lee.) You can also build a "German Nieuport," a.k.a a Siemens-Schukert D I, although this aircraft wasn't exactly common.

You could also strike out on your own like I am. Yes, it has more risk, and certainly more frustration... but I will have a very unique aircraft, and I can say I did it all- well... honestly, I too will "borrow" techniques and structures from others... in my case from the "chuckbird" series of ultralights/light aircraft. I'm in the planning stages for a Roland CII. It is to have a Geo Metro (suzuki made) 3-cylinder water cooled engine of about 70 HP. Engine weight is around 100 lbs. without accesories, probably near 150 all-up. I already have the engine- I got it "free" in exchange for some labor. Just yanked it out of the car last night as a matter of fact- I "traded" some work for a running geo metro with a bad transmission. I'll certainly change the timing belt at the very least, probably do a valve job, and maybe a complete rebuild. It runs strong, but I don't know how many more hours it would be good for.

I'm figuring my airframe costs will be around $3000 for materials, perhaps a BIT more... probably $500-750 for a reduction drive (to spin the prop slower) and between $400 and $800 for the prop, depending on what type I decide to go with.

I originally wanted to build an Albatross D series, but my buddy talked me into a 2-seater... so, I poked around and decided the C II would be best. It's relatively small... it looks good... the wing attach points will be MUCH simpler than on a biplane with cabane-mounted wings... it has an inline engine so the nose is longer, making it easier to balance with a heavy pilot... it would of course have to be flown solo from the REAR (observer/gunner) seat, but that's just the way it has to be! It has relatively generous tail surfaces with fixed surfaces instead of the full-flying surfaces on many WWI aircraft, so it should be more stable and docile. The fuselage will be harder to construct than some others, due to the molded shell that they used, but it should be fairly straightforward, especially if I just use a lightweight fairing around a truss structure.
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Old 16 October 2001, 03:29 AM   #9
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Brad-

Airdrome kits a Fokker D.VI, not a D.VII. I suppose with a little kitbashing it could make a better looking D.VII than the Loehle D.VII though.
 
Old 16 October 2001, 12:39 PM   #10
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Brad-

"Airdrome kits a Fokker D.VI, not a D.VII. I suppose with a little kitbashing it could make a better looking D.VII than the Loehle D.VII though."


DOH! You're right! At least it doesn't have 2 sets of interplane struts! I'm pretty sure ALL of the Lohle kits are based on thier Jenny kit. Either way, Baslee's kits are MUCH better than the Lohle stuff (from an appearance perspective... dunno about flying qualities.)

Dick Starks is building a Taube... that should prove to be interesting. Looks good so far, although I wouldn't have used a VW on it- it doesn't look right. Go to www.kcdawnpatrol.org for info on LOTS of stuff- although they are mostly Nieuport builders.
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