The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History

The Aerodrome Forum

Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > WWI Aviation > Aircraft

Aircraft Topics related to WWI aircraft, aircraft engines and armament

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4 July 2002, 10:08 PM   #1
Posts: n/a

Hi All!

I am a first timer on this forum. A friend approached me and asked help for finding an older Cross & Cockade magazine issue.

The magazine run during late sixties a three part article series "The Standard French Camouflage System of 1918" by A.D. Toelle, Hastings and v. Hardesty. My friend does have part I (published in 1967), and II (1969) but has not been able to locate the third part of the article anywhere here in Finland nor through his foreign contacts. The third part of the article possibly was published in a year 1973 issue??

The said article contains some fundamental data about the paints and dopes and the painting/doping systems and patterns too. As you may be aware Finnish Air Force had 38 Breguet 14 planes and one is being preserved now at the Tikkakoski aviation museum also some pics about the restoration project at:

The article would provide some useful data for this project and also to other colour questions of 20's Finnish Air Force. For example (at least) one Fokker DVII was painted in segmented camo with French paints. Some original samples of 20's French paints have been found here (a company paint color sample sheet/brochure) but it is not known if they are the right ones for 1918 period.

It would be great if someone had the magazine issue and would be willing to copy or scan it (or sell the issue). Even the info about which issue holds the third part of said article would bring the search further. For a return favor I could try to help with all questions about Finnish Air Force and Estonian Air Force, even tricky ones.

Old 5 July 2002, 12:59 AM   #2
Two-seater Pilot
jado's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Norwood, Ma. USA
Posts: 186


Go to [] click on Indices and then Article Index. *When you find the article your looking for go to Society Sales then Back Issues. *I see that 1973 volumes are available but in short supply. *You can order them as directed.

Hope you find what your looking for.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *VBR
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Joe

* * * *
"Tis a mans game, if ever there was a mans game in this world; and its boys with the soft fleece of adolescence on their cheeks that play it best. "
The Annals of 100 Sqd
jado is offline  
Old 5 July 2002, 03:24 AM   #3
Scout Pilot
Matt_Bittner's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Omaha, NE, USA
Posts: 493

Unfortunately what Joe said isn't helpful for what Kari is looking for. The C&C issue he wants was part of the original Cross & Cockade started in the US. Some of the ways I have seen the magazine referred to is C&C(US), while the current, UK based magazine is referred to as C&CI.

What some of us are hoping for is for Alan Toelle to upgrade and re-release "Project Butterfly" (the "subtitle" to the series in question). Maybe someone can contact Mr. Toelle on our behalf and suggest that. I think it would be great to see it re-released and upgraded.
Matt Bittner
Software Engineer/Assistant Editor
Internet Modeler
Matt_Bittner is offline  
Old 5 July 2002, 04:33 AM   #4
Forum Ace
PeterL's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Stockport UK

Maybe he could be persuaded to permit a web version if someone were willing to take it on

Peter L
PeterL is offline  
Old 5 July 2002, 12:20 PM   #5
Forum Ace of Aces
Gregvan's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Charles, Iowa
Posts: 6,286

Hi All,

Part 3 of the "Project Butterfly" series was published in the same year as Part 2, in Cross & Cockade (the original, US version !) Volume 13, No. 4, Winter 1974. Part 3 was the final section. It contains a very technical and scientific discussion of an examination of reflectance spectra for replica colors, etc. Also a few supplementary notes about the characteristic finishes of various French Spad manufacturers, some drawings of hallmarks of national and detail markings on Spad XIIIs from different manufacturers, and tonal drawings for two patterns as applied to various Spad VIIs. There is a very detailed appendix of annotated Spad serial numbers. However, there is very little pertaining to Breguet 14's.

Kari, if you'll contact me off-forum, via e-mail, I could send you the info contained in Part 3. I'll also pass this news on to Alan Toelle and see what he says. He wasn't the only author of Project Butterfly - the late H.D. Hastings and B.F. Hardesty were also involved. I'm sure Alan will be interested in the Breguet restoration project.

Very best regards,

Greg VanWyngarden
Greg VanWyngarden

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
Gregvan is offline  
Closed Thread


quotthe, standard, french, camouflage, system, 1918quot

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Frank Luke sept 1918 "Credit" ? PFFF People 3 23 August 2006 03:55 PM
Dan-San's "German Army Air Force Camouflage Systems" EricGoedkoop Camouflage, Colors and Markings 1 7 March 2005 03:35 PM
Könnecke's "Green Tail" Albatros DVa early 1918 Romani Aircraft 6 4 September 2004 09:07 AM
A query on Spad 7s' "yellow" camouflage Tomasz Aircraft 2 14 November 2002 02:47 AM
"Plane News" May 4,1918- Percy's Diary jc 2002 0 30 January 2002 01:39 AM

As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:49 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1997 - 2023 The Aerodrome