The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Help
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History


The Aerodrome Forum


Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > WWI Aviation > Aircraft

Aircraft Topics related to WWI aircraft, aircraft engines and armament

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 August 2006, 09:40 PM   #1
Pips
Forum Ace
 
Pips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Culcairn, Australia
Posts: 977

 
Fokker D.VIII

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I gather that only Jasta 6 was equipped with the D.VIII, receiving them from late September '18 onwards. From what I have been able to determine Jasta 6 spent the last few months of the war fighting down around the Verdun/Frescaly/Marville/Virton area.

If so does that mean that only French and American units would have aganinst the D.VIII? Or were there some British units operating in that area as well?
Pips is offline  
Sponsored Links
Old 3 August 2006, 10:11 PM   #2
RAGIII
Forum Ace
 
RAGIII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: NC USA
Posts: 1,471

 
Jasta 6 was equipped with Fokker EVs in August and IIRC had them on strength for only 17 days prior to their grounding. Other Jastas received a few EVs prior to the grounding order. I know the exact info is available on other threads in this forum. At the time of their initial equipment with the EV Jasta 6 was located at Bernes Airfield. I do not know how this relates to probable opponents. IHTH,
RAGIII
__________________
Ricks Axioms: "A mans got to know his limitations" Harry Callahan.
"Don't slop it on" Lynda Geisler
RAGIII is offline  
Old 4 August 2006, 10:53 AM   #3
Dan_San_Abbott
Rest in Peace
 
Dan_San_Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,118

 

My Gallery
Fok.D.VIII.

Cobby:
By war's end, Fokker Flugzeugwerke had delivered to the Luftstreitkräft 80 Fok.D.VIII aircraft, however, none were issued to any known Jasta. The Fok.E.V/D.VIII powered with the 110Ps Oberrusel U.II engine was a loosing proposition, its power to weight ratio was in the favor of the Allied fighters.
Had they came back with the 170 Ps Goebel Goe.III Rotary, it would have been a different matter, it would have out performed all Allied fighters.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Dan_San_Abbott is offline  
Old 4 August 2006, 12:37 PM   #4
Gregvan
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Gregvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Charles, Iowa
Posts: 6,283

 
Fokker E.V versus D.VIII

Hi,

Cobby, it's important to differentiate between the Fokker E.V and the D.VIII. To be nit-picky, only the E.V was ever delivered to the front in August and saw very limited combat. The first examples of the modified and strengthened D.VIII were accepted in October, but Pete Grosz believes (IIRC) that the D.VIII never fired its guns in anger in the Great War - too late and too few.

As for the E.V, some were delivered to Jasta 6 on 5 August (according to Richard Wenzl). On 16 August, by which time JG I had moved to Bernes, Ltn d R Emil Rolff achieved what is believed to have been the first victory for an E.V when he shot down a Camel of 203 Sqn. According to Wenzl, the E.V's engines suffered from the ersatz oil in use, and the Jasta 6 pilots had 30 emergency or forced landings in ten days. On 19 August Jasta 6 was engaged with Camels (probably from 54 Sqn) and Wenzl was shooting up a Camel when his Oberursel seized. His comrade Ltn Matzdorf claimed a Camel E of Beauvais, possibly another E.V victory. That same day Emil Rolff was killed due to wing failure.

Other units that received small numbers of the E.V were Jasta 24 (at least one), Jasta 36 in JG III, Jasta 19 in JG II, and the Marine Feld Jagdstaffeln I and II. No doubt there were others.

Stu Wyatt very kindly supplied me with a combat report from No. 54 Squadron from 14 August which describes an encounter with an E.V (probably Jasta 6): "At 8:40 a..m. today an EA monoplane was encountered west of Brie by No. 54 Squadron. It greatly resembled a Bristol Monoplane, slighly shorter, generally smaller, but more bulky. It was apparently equipped with a rotary engine which emitted a long stream of smoke. It was highly camouflaged with green effect, and it had square type crosses. Its performance was apparently very good. The tail was not observed."

On 19 August, No. 54 Sqn reported at "9 a.m. to 9-30 a.m.: 20 to 25 E.A. scouts - Fokker triplanes, biplanes and several monoplanes - at height from 10,000 to 17,000 ft in the vicinity of Roisel. These attacked our bombing formations and were engaged by both bombers and scouts. Results indecisive."

The 54 Sqn SRO for the same date reported: "Rendezvous with bombers over Font-Royelles at 13,000 feet at 8-30 a.m., and accompanied them to objective and back to lines. Fokker biplanes and monoplanes seen in various groups at 17,000 feet thrpoughout the operation, total number about 25."

Greg
__________________
Greg VanWyngarden

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
Gregvan is online now  
Old 4 August 2006, 12:59 PM   #5
Gregvan
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Gregvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Charles, Iowa
Posts: 6,283

 
Hi Again,

In the marvelous book "Fighter Pilot on the Western Front", the Sopwith Camel ace of No. 210 Sqn, E.D. Crundall, wrote (pp. 138-139) that on 12 August: "I led a formation of 5 at 18,000 ft over Ypres, Roulers, Bruges and Dixmude ...Lt Swale had engine trouble and could not keep with the formation so he turned back to the lines after we had passed Roulers. When we returned from the patrol Swale told us he had been attacked by four monoplanes which outmanoeuvered him in every way but he managed to get away and cross the lines.

"This is the first occasion on which monoplanes have been seen for a very long time. ..Swale said he could hardly believe his eyes when he saw them and as they approached in formation they looked like four short straight lines in the sky with large dots in their centres.

"Swale was chaffed a good deal about what he said he had seen and was told he must put more water in his drink in the future. However headquarters were most interested in Swale's report and in the evening sent an intelligence officer to question him. All of us were told to keep a sharp look out for this new type of German aircraft."

I suppose these might have been some E.V's attached to the Marine Feld Jastas.

If I have my facts straight, Fokker E.V 143/18 was delivered to MFJ II on 11 August 1918

Fokker E.V 144/18 and 155/18 were delivered to MFJ III on 10 August.

Fokker E.V 160/18 was delivered to MFJ I on 10 August 1918.

On 16 August 1918, Ltn Ernst Riedel of Jasta 19 (JG II) was killed in Fokker E.V 107/18 due to wing failure. Together with Rolff''s death three days later, this led to a grounding of all E.Vs.

The naval Seefront Staffel apparently continued to fly the E.V after it was grounded, with two E.Vs reported aloft on 22 August 1918. The last time an E.V was reported aloft was on 27 August 1918.

Hope that is of interest.

Greg
__________________
Greg VanWyngarden

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
Gregvan is online now  
Old 4 August 2006, 03:39 PM   #6
Pips
Forum Ace
 
Pips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Culcairn, Australia
Posts: 977

 
Man I luv you guys! The depth of knowledge here is simply astounding. Many thanks to both Dan and Greg.

Am I correct in assuming then that the Fokker E.V was a pre-production or trial version of the D.VIII? And had both structural and engine issues that led to it's withdrawal from the Front within a short space of time? And that was it for it's combat career, as I gather that the actual D.VIII didn't see combat?

So were the differences between the E.V and the D.VIII just time and improvement? Or something more?

And finally could anyone shed light on what was the criteria used that lead to a particluar Jasta being selected to trial new aircraft. In this case why Jasta 6?
Pips is offline  
Old 4 August 2006, 04:47 PM   #7
Dan_San_Abbott
Rest in Peace
 
Dan_San_Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,118

 

My Gallery
Fok.E.V = Fok.D.VIII.

Cobby:
After the Fok.E.V machines were grounded on 19 August 1918 an accident commission investigated the wing failures on the Fok.E.V. The findings of this commission found that the wing were not properly constructed and were not properly finished to prevent delamination of the plywood, etc. Fokker Flugzeugwerke had to replace the wings at his expence. Correction were made to the wing, after testing at Adlershof, between 7 to 10 September 1918 the wing was given an OK on 24 September 1918. After approval, by Idflieg, the designation was changed from Fok.E.V to the next D designation, D.VIII. This is odd, E=eindecker,one wing, D=doppeldecker, double wing.The intent was to show it was not the same machine.
In FOKKER The Creative Years, A.R.Weyl states the on 11 October 1918, Jasta 11, Jasta 1 and Jasta 23b were equipped with the redesignated Fok.D.VIII, (because of the new wing). the truth of the matter is, NO Fok.D.VIII aircraft were issued to any Front Unit. Jasta 11, Jasta 1 and Jasta23b flew Fok.D.VII machines to the end of the war.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Dan_San_Abbott is offline  
Old 4 August 2006, 08:34 PM   #8
Pips
Forum Ace
 
Pips's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Culcairn, Australia
Posts: 977

 
Again many thanks Dan.

So it would appear that the E.V (the correct designation given it's a monoplane) was the first production batch. And that it only saw limited service from the 5th to 19th August 1918, when it was withdrawn due to structural problems. And that the improved D.VIII appeared in October, but never reached the Jasta's. Fascinating.

Structural problems seemed to dog Fokker - the E.V, the Dr.1. Did early versions of the D.VII suffer as well? But then too Albatross had simliar problems with the D.V.

One last request if I may. If I could only own one book on Fokker aircraft, what would be one's recommendation?
Pips is offline  
Old 7 August 2006, 11:49 AM   #9
Dan_San_Abbott
Rest in Peace
 
Dan_San_Abbott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 9,118

 

My Gallery
Fokker books?

Cobby:
That is a tough one Alex Imrie's THE FOKKER TRIPLANE and Paul Leaman's
The Fokker DR.I Triplane are both very good books. Book books have a number of errors in them, it would be hard to choose. fortunately, I don't have to choose, I have both.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Dan_San_Abbott is offline  
Old 7 August 2006, 01:38 PM   #10
Gregvan
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Gregvan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: St. Charles, Iowa
Posts: 6,283

 
Cobby,

If you can read German, I would suggest "Fokker Flugzeugwerke in Deutschland 1912-1921" by Peter M. Grosz and Volker Koos, published in 2004 by Heel Verlag GmbH (ISBN 3-89880-355-4). Even if you can't read German, you can get a lot out of it from the photos and simple technical stats descriptions. No scale plans, but beautiful photos of every Fokker design in the titled years. Great stuff, and copies show up on German ebay all the time. Either that or get all of the available 'Windsock Datafiles' on Fokker types by Pete Grosz!!

As for Fokker Triplanes, I would recommend Alex Imrie's marvelous book if you can get it. Leaman's too, for the scale plans and technical details, and multitude of photos.

Greg
__________________
Greg VanWyngarden

An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
Niels Bohr
Gregvan is online now  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
fokker, dviii


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fokker D-viii HAMMER Aircraft 5 16 March 2005 06:32 PM
Fokker E.V/D.VIII clement Models 1 19 December 2002 06:43 AM
Need some help, Fokker E V / D VIII again. Cezar from Cleveland. 2001 2 19 April 2001 08:02 PM
Fokker D.VIII (not D.VII) J 2000 17 19 September 2000 09:41 AM
Fokker E-V/D-VIII Mark 2000 5 23 June 2000 06:44 AM


As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1997 - 2023 The Aerodrome