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Camouflage, Colors and Markings Topics related to Camouflage, Colors and Markings of WWI aircraft

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Old 13 August 2006, 09:34 PM   #1
JohnFitz
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Willy Coppens Nieuport 16

I would appreciate all and any help in finding documentation on this machine. I notice a color drawing on The Nieuport Pages web site but would like opinions of the colors. Is this machine covered in any of the Windsock or Osprey publications? Thanks for your consideration.
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Old 17 August 2006, 06:14 AM   #2
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Willy Coppens

Okay, I bought a copy of Osprey's, Balloon-Busting Aces of World War 1, and found a small photo Of Coppen's Nieuport 16 from Coppens Album. Not much of a description of the colors but it does say, "the fighter featuring his blue cocotte or paper horse, personal marking". It also looks like the lower wing was painted in broad sections of different colors? Sides of fuselage seem to be doped silver or white? Seems that there should be more info. on this machine out there.
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Old 21 August 2006, 06:39 AM   #3
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1ere Escadrille, Aviation Militaire Belge

Thought If I change my approach on this I might get some response? I guess everyone is very busy with more important things. Anyway, can anyone tell me where to find information on the colors of these machines? I thought it might help figure out the colors of Coppen's Nieuport 16. Would it be a good guess that the horizontal surfaces would have been in French camo. colors like the HD1's? I am waiting for a copy of J.M. Bruce's, Nieuport Fighters Vol.1 that might give me the answers also. Thanks for your consideration.
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Old 22 August 2006, 04:12 AM   #4
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John!

You mean the Nie 16 with a syncronized Vickers on its nose? I think there is a big photo of it in Nieuport Fighters in Action by Squadron/Signal. I don't have it handy, but I can take a closer look tonight.

I used to plan to build a model of the plane (I built Jan Olieslagers' Nieuport 16 instead). My interpretation of the colours was: CDL with ecru nose and aluminum cowling, top side of wings, tail and turtledeck dark green in the way Belgians used more with their Spads and Nieuport 17s and 23s.

I don't buy easily aluminum dope on a N16, but the Nieuport page seem to do that:

http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_11.html

Yours Mikko
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Old 22 August 2006, 05:36 AM   #5
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Coppens N16

Mikko, Thanks for your reply. I have two photo's, one of Coppens sitting in his N16 and another (different N16) from the Flying Machines Press book that show silver dope fuselage. Coppen's shows another color on the top of the fuselage also. Yes, this machine had the Vickers mounted on the nose. I need to know how the wings and tail were painted. Anything you can provide is appreciated. Cheers!
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Old 22 August 2006, 06:36 AM   #6
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Coppen's N16

Mikko, Just pulled out my Aviatik, Spad VII C1 book by Tomasz Gronczewski and found a nice color plate of the Spad VII flown by Charles Ciselet and the top color looks like PC10 to me. Much more brown-ish than green.
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Old 22 August 2006, 12:22 PM   #7
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Here's the photo I know! Upper surfaces of the wings, turtledeck and perhaps also the upper deck of the nose are painted with one dark camo colour, which is very often thought to be dark green, but like you noticed, John, Tomasz Gronczewski seems to think it is something brownish like PC10 instead. Thomasz usually has very good reasons for his interpretations. Anyway, there seems to be a tape of some darker colour on the edge of the fuselage side and deck. The camo colour on the lower wing does not go all the way to the root of the wing. That is typical to Belgian planes painted like this, isn't it? You can see also the port side Belgian roundel on the top of the upper wing. Note also the non standard nose acces panel of this plane.

Mikko

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Old 22 August 2006, 12:55 PM   #8
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Coppen's N16

Thanks Mikko, I have this photo from the Osprey book but it is much smaller. Do you think it is possible that the tops of everything were painted blue like the blue cocotte marking? Coppens did have his HD1 #6 painted all blue because he didn't like to camo. " it resembled one of those varnished wooden snakes you saw in toy shops". That dark strip along the longeron has to be either black or red?
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Old 22 August 2006, 04:48 PM   #9
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Is it possible that the "dark strip" is just an extension of the top color. It appears to gradually get lighter as approaches the front. Near the cockpit it is just slightly darker.

Steve
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Old 22 August 2006, 05:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFitz View Post
Thanks Mikko, I have this photo from the Osprey book but it is much smaller. Do you think it is possible that the tops of everything were painted blue like the blue cocotte marking? Coppens did have his HD1 #6 painted all blue because he didn't like to camo. " it resembled one of those varnished wooden snakes you saw in toy shops". That dark strip along the longeron has to be either black or red?
I doubt that "Blue" is an option! As you have quoted Coppens made a destinct statement reference his Hanriot. NO MENTION is made of Blue about any other aircraft in his very nice book.! JMHO,
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