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Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > No Man's Land > Pioneer Aviation


Pioneer Aviation Topics related to the aviators and aeroplanes prior to WWI

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Old 28 December 2008, 02:57 PM   #1
Rbailey
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Breguet's Pre-1914 Challenge # 007

All I know about this is identity, year and nationality. Perhps someone can add more,

The score at the finish of round #006 is:

2.00 Airarticles
1.00 joegertler
1.00 matte_kudasai
1.00 RBailey
1.00 Varese2002

The (preliminary) rules:

•The thread title must be "Bréguet's pre-1914 ID challenge #......"
•The score board, link and rules must be copied to the beginning and end of each thread so that we know where we are.
•The flying object must have been dreamt up before 1914 (no limit backwards in time ....)
•There are no limits to the flying object for the pre-1914 series. There is no ruling that it must be flown, or completely built
•The picture / drawing must show as much of the flying object as possible, but views showing the machine 'incomplete' are possible (with discretion)
•Challenges which depict a machine already earlier presented are disqualified
•If there is any doubt as to the eligibility of a flying object for the challenge details should be PM'd to Breguet BEFORE the object is submitted.
•Once someone has got 5 correct answers under their belt they belong to the ROYALTY. Once they belong to the ROYALTY they must wait 12hrs after the posting of the new challenge before they can post an answer.
•To be eligible for correct ID an answer must include at least one characteristic of the aircraft that helped in its identification.
•The first person to ID the challenge correctly gets to post the next challenge. If this can not be done for any reason Breguet himself will post the next challenge.
•If a ROYALTY gives the correct answer too early, the challenge is over, he gets no point but has to post the next one. In lieu of the fact that the "novices" have in effect been "cheated" of their "exclusive" time that next post should be a relatively easy one. Anyone repeating the correct answer at the right time gets neither a point nor the right to post the next challenge.
•The final arbitor in relation to questions about the rules will be Breguet.
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Old 30 December 2008, 05:29 AM   #2
Rbailey
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I did not intend to bring this challenge to a halt. The machine is European, but not French or British so it is not in Opdyke or Goodall and Tagg.
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Old 30 December 2008, 11:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbailey View Post
I did not intend to bring this challenge to a halt. The machine is European, but not French or British so it is not in Opdyke or Goodall and Tagg.

After having done a few hours on this one, I think you have effectively brought the pre-1914 Challenge to a standstill (at least for me). The picture is not very clear, but I have the impression that we are looking at a canard (tail first) machine? It can be almost be seen that we are lloking the pilot in the face, as he looks at the tail.....

Cheers

Kees
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Old 30 December 2008, 01:18 PM   #4
Rbailey
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Kees, you are correct; it is a canard. It was built in 1912. The type is mentioned in Flight, but only as part of a list and nothing there to clue you in to it being a canard.
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Old 30 December 2008, 04:21 PM   #5
Aquilius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbailey View Post
I did not intend to bring this challenge to a halt.
Rbailey, be sure there will be no end in the near future (years)!


I thought sometimes to start something like this in the past. It´s an awesome series startet and you will surely find some posts from me in the following challenges. Only during the holydays not everyone stays at home with his references by the hand. I know there are others out these days, who will compete here. It will become more crowded in the next year!


Happy new year

Aquilius
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Old 30 December 2008, 10:12 PM   #6
Varese2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbailey View Post
Kees, you are correct; it is a canard. It was built in 1912. The type is mentioned in Flight, but only as part of a list and nothing there to clue you in to it being a canard.
You are not hinting at the big lists detailing the machines which participated (or not) in the Military Trials of 1912 I think this machine has some Russian flavour...........

Cheers

Kees
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Old 31 December 2008, 06:34 AM   #7
Rbailey
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Kees - while it was entered in a military trial, it is probably not one you are thinking of, and the trial was in 1913 (although this machine was built in 1912). Also, your taste buds decieve you; this machine was definitely un-Russian.
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Old 1 January 2009, 04:14 AM   #8
Airarticles
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Is this a canard of Hungarian designer Szekelly Mihaly? In my notes I have an information that he built a canard pusher monoplane, but I do not have a photo. I would say that the wide plain of airfield can be near Budapest and according to the shape of helmet and face it must be aviator Szekely sitting in his plane.

Design: Székely Mihály
Span: 11 m, Length: 7.1 m
Empty weight empty: 254 kg
Producer: Székely Mihály, Rákosmező, Hungarian
Kingdom, Austro-Hungarian Empire
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Old 2 January 2009, 05:36 AM   #9
Rbailey
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Sorry, not Mihaly or Hungarian. Moving in the right direction geographicaly from Russia, but still a way to go.
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Old 2 January 2009, 11:01 AM   #10
Varese2002
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I persevere on (against considerable odds ). Taking the hint(s) of RBailey
Quote:
It was built in 1912. The type is mentioned in Flight, but only as part of a list and nothing there to clue you in to it being a canard.
Quote:
while it was entered in a military trial, it is probably not one you are thinking of, and the trial was in 1913 (although this machine was built in 1912).
I came to the Italian military competition of 1913, which is very little featured in Flight, but this can be found in Flight 1913, March 29...



So to narrow the field, excluding Caproni, the work is laid out before us as it can be a:

- T.A. Milano

- Meccanica Lombarda (S.A.M.L. that is)

- Tonini-Bergonzi

- Wolsit

- Borba Cesare

- Chiribini (Chiribiri actually !)

- Gabardini

- Macchi

- S.I.T.

- Castellani

To say the least a very little known collection

Cheers

Kees
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