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Aircraft Topics related to WWI aircraft, aircraft engines and armament

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Old 7 March 2010, 12:14 PM   #1
badlanding
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Bristol F2B flown as a single-seater?

Was it? Reason I ask is this -rather graphic! - photo, in which the plane is clearly on active service (!) but the observer's seat appears to be faired over with a canvas cover. Pity really, an observer just might have come in handy....



I'm saying it is an F2B...of course I may be wrong... ?
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Old 7 March 2010, 02:02 PM   #2
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Its a F2b allright, but a F2b model i think

I suspect the picture comes from a set/book of very clever modelphotos
taken during or right after the war.

That could be why there is no observer.

Maybe the F2b was flown as a single-seater, i hope other can answer that.

But the picture cant prove it.
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Old 7 March 2010, 02:22 PM   #3
albatros1234
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from what i've read if you had to fly a f2b or any other 2 seater for that matter with only a pilot you had to put a weight as ballast in the observer area, i'm not sure why maybe to balance the fuselage from being front heavy? one of these pros will chime in and correct me or confirm this but i think it even says so on the aircraft.
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Old 7 March 2010, 03:30 PM   #4
sobrien
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The series o f pictures from which the above one was taken can be found here Rosebud's WWI and Early Aviation Image Archive under the heading "Aerial Combat Photos authenticity suspect & proven fakes."

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but what I remember is that they were originally printed in a book called Warbird in the 1930's purporting to be authentic.

Sean
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Old 7 March 2010, 04:22 PM   #5
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Hi,

This is one of a whole series of faked photos (done with models) done in the 1930's and published in 1933 in a fictitious pilot's diary entitled Death in the Air. The "anonymous" author was listed simply as a "Flying Corps Pilot", but in reality was one Wesley D. Archer.

The photos are now generally known as the "Cockburn-Lange photos".

Archer had actually served in the RFC or RAF in WWI, but the book is entirely fictitious, purporting to tell how the unidentified pilot rigged up a camera to take these "spectacular" combat photos.

The whole hoax was uncovered and debunked by Peter Grosz sometime around 1990, if I recall correctly. He stumbled across Archer's own memorabilia in the depths of the Smithsonian, and published his results in both "WWI Aero" and in "Air and Space".
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Old 8 March 2010, 01:26 AM   #6
badlanding
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Well I was wondering at the coincidence of getting a photo like that, on the other hand it was pretty well done for its time. Apart of course from the lack of an observer, but maybe the faker felt that would have been in bad taste!

I didn't find it on the Rosebud site btw, there's another free site with a load of WW1 stuff, including quite a few aircraft pics... mostly uncaptioned as to aircraft type but interesting none the less. I can't post a link as I don't have 10 posts here yet. (Well I do actually, in fact many more, but most were a long time ago and I'm damned if I can remember the ID I used to use so had to make a new one).

Thanks guys for the explanation!
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Old 8 March 2010, 07:00 PM   #7
Barry Hickson
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Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by badlanding View Post
Was it? Reason I ask is this -rather graphic! - photo, in which the plane is clearly on active service (!) but the observer's seat appears to be faired over with a canvas cover. Pity really, an observer just might have come in handy....



I'm saying it is an F2B...of course I may be wrong... ?
G'day There!
Interestingly to make full use of the Bristol Fighter you had apparently to "Fly" it like a single seater for it to reach its full potential.
There are well documented evidence to show that the early losses of these aircraft were caused by pilots frling them as 2 seaters.
The Gunner was to be used to attack any enemy latching on to the Tail whilst the Pilot flew the aircraft as an agressive single seater.
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Old 8 March 2010, 07:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregvan
[Grosz] stumbled across Archer's own memorabilia in the depths of the Smithsonian, ...
Archer, Wesley, (Cockburn-Lange Hoax) Collection, Acc. 1986-0008
5.45 cubic feet
In 1933 the book Death in the Air: The War Diary and Photographs of a Flying Corps Pilot was published anonymously, purporting to be the record of a Royal Flying Corps (RFC) pilot during World War I. The book included photos allegedly taken by the pilot during aerial combat. The photos were supposedly owned by a Mrs. Gladys Maud Cockburn-Lange, but had actually been contrived by Wesley David Archer, an American pilot who had served in the RFC. The Cockburn-Lange hoax persisted until it was exposed by Peter M. Grosz, author and historian, and Karl S. Schneide, Curator of Early Flight at the National Air and Space Museum, in the early 1980s.
Contents: Documents relating to the Cockburn-Lange hoax. Photos used in the book, correspondence and journal articles detailing Grosz' and Schneide's unraveling of the hoax. Includes personal correspondence from Archer and topographical and road maps.
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch...GUIDE.PT7.html

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Old 9 March 2010, 12:10 AM   #9
badlanding
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ww1 photographs

Here's the site I found that pic by the way - it's all free of course.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...War-One/page13

There is a LOT of superb (and genuine!) WW1 stuff, and a good number of aircraft pictures too. I would imagine many of them can be found elsewhere as well, but there were certainly some I hadn't seen before, and surprisingly some I had seen before but in significantly better quality than reproduced elsewhere. Maybe somebody will find it interesting - I did.

Here's a little teaser for those that like guessing games.. name that plane!



And a pic I just really liked of a Taube, looking even more like a pigeon than normal!

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Old 9 March 2010, 03:28 PM   #10
albatros1234
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very thin wings of clear doped linen, the crosses look austrian. two sets of interplane struts. i'd guess a 2 seater maybe of early avaitik c1.
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