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Old 2 January 2017, 05:09 AM   #1
Knusel
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Complete Nieuport ace list: British Empire aces

Good morning Gentlemen,

the British Empire produced more Nieuport aces (43) than any other Allied power (see attachment). Among them are the leading exponents of the Nieuport 17 (Ball), 17bis (Norton), 23 (Bishop), 24 (Mannock) and 27 (Fullard/Payne). However, the Bishop score remains dubious (see Bishop threads).
I'm still trying to find out if the French aces Dieudonné Costes and Marcel Hauss have scored 5 Nieuport 24 kills, which would qualify them for the joint top ace rank together with Mannock. Can anybody help me ?

Cheers,

Michael
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File Type: pdf British Empire Nieuport aces compiled by Dr. M. Zeh.pdf (18.7 KB, 117 views)
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Old 2 January 2017, 07:35 AM   #2
Frommherz
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Hi Michael,

unfortunately I cannot open this PDF-file... what to do?
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Old 2 January 2017, 11:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frommherz View Post
Hi Michael,

unfortunately I cannot open this PDF-file... what to do?

...hmm, I could send you the list via eMail.

Michael
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Old 3 January 2017, 02:12 AM   #4
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As usual, a fascinating compilation Knusel. Most enjoyable and enlightening. Interesting that the Nieuport 23 proved to be the most successful - was it also the most available of the Nieuport mark's in RFC service?
And surprised that Albert Ball didn't make any claims in the Nieuport 11.

So much can be drawn from this list.

Frommherz, I too couldn't open the PDF, so I saved it to my desktop and then it opened ok.
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Old 3 January 2017, 01:45 PM   #5
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Thumbs up

I opened it O.K.
Again thanks for posting this Kunsel.
Very interesting stats.
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Old 12 January 2017, 12:39 AM   #6
Knusel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pips View Post
As usual, a fascinating compilation Knusel. Most enjoyable and enlightening. Interesting that the Nieuport 23 proved to be the most successful - was it also the most available of the Nieuport mark's in RFC service?
And surprised that Albert Ball didn't make any claims in the Nieuport 11.

So much can be drawn from this list.

Frommherz, I too couldn't open the PDF, so I saved it to my desktop and then it opened ok.
Hello Pips,

you may know that the top British Empire pilots of the Nieuport 11 are Redford Mulock and Roderic Dallas. Dallas ist listed with 4 Nieuport 11 kills plus one unconfirmed on this website. However, in "Nieuports in RNAS, RFC and RAF service" two further Nieuport 11 kills are indicated:
  • 23Apr1916 C-type destroyed near Westende-Middelkerke
  • 21Apr1916 C-type in flames near Westende
Can anybody tell me if these kills are unconfirmed too or if the Dallas victory list on theaerodrome.com is wrong ?

Cheers,

Michael
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Old 12 January 2017, 04:07 AM   #7
Graeme
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From my own dabblings, the Nieuport 11 claims I have are:

Roderic Stanley Dallas:

20-Feb-1916, Nieuport 11 3981, two-seater, destroyed Nieuport
23-Apr-1916, Nieuport 11 3981, two-seater out of control Middlekerke at 05:30 British Time/06:30 German Time)
20-May-1916, Nieuport 11 3993, Seaplane sank in the sea off Blankenberghe at 07:00/08:00
21-May-1916, Nieuport 11 3989, Albatros C in flames north of Westende at 14:00/15:00
09-Jul-1916, Nieuport 11 3994 Fokker EIII out of control Mariakerke at 15:10/16:10

Redford Henry Mulock:

24-Jan-1916, Nieuport 11 3977, two-seater forced to land (?) near Westende
26-Jan-1916, Nieuport 11 3977, two-seater out of control Nieuport at 15:00/16:00
21-May-1916, Nieuport 11 3992, two-seater out of control off Nieuport at 14:00/15:00
21-May-1916, Nieuport 11 3992, two-seater out of control off Nieuport at 14:00/15:00

Daniel Murray Boyne Galbraith:

28-Sep-1916, Nieuport 11 3992, Seaplane out of control (?) out to sea at 11:00/12:00
22-Oct-1916, Nieuport 11 3986, Seaplane crashed Blankenberghe at 15:30/16:30

Thomas Francis Netterville Gerrard:

08-Jul-1916, Nieuport 11 3989, Fokker E out of control south of Ostende at 14:05/15:05

L H Irving:

09-Jul-1916, Nieuport 11 8749, Fokker E destroyed near Middlekerke at 15:00/16:00

Ernest William Norton:

20-Oct-1916, Nieuport 11 3994, Balloon in flames near Ostende at 11:35/12:35

Herbert Rutter Simms:

29-Feb-1916, Nieuport 11 3981, two-seater in flames near Dixmude at 14:45/15:45

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Old 12 January 2017, 04:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knusel View Post

23Apr1916 C-type destroyed near Westende-Middelkerke
21Apr1916 C-type in flames near Westende

Can anybody tell me if these kills are unconfirmed too or if the Dallas victory list on theaerodrome.com is wrong ?

Hi Knusel,

In his book "Australian Hawk", Adrian Hellwig shows the 23 April 1916 victory as a C-type OOC . His sources are the Official Service Record, "Franks" and "Above The Trenches".

Nothing shown for 21 April 1916, but one on 21 April 1917 on his Triplane.

Perhaps Adrian can shed more light on your question.

Cheers,
Tony

Sorry, Graeme, didn't mean to cut you off. Guess we were typing at the same time.
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Last edited by MASTIFF; 12 January 2017 at 04:24 AM. Reason: Oops.
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Old 12 January 2017, 04:28 AM   #9
Knusel
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Hello Tony,

I have made a printing mistake:
The claims listed by "Nieuports in RNAS, RFC and RAF service" but not listed in the Dallas victory log of theaerodrome are
  • 23Apr1916 C-type destroyed near Westende-Middelkerke
  • 21May1916 two kills mentioned on that date: one in 3989 (near Westende) and one in 3991 (N of Dunkirk)
Michael
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Old 12 January 2017, 05:04 AM   #10
Graeme
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Hi Tony

Didn't feel a thing

Must admit, I typed, hit the 'submit' button then dashed off to get my car after its annual service and MOT.

No harm done.

Graeme
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