The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Help
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History


The Aerodrome Forum


Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > Archives > 1999

1999 Closed threads from 1999 (read only)

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 29 December 1999, 09:43 AM   #1
Amy
Forum Ace
 
Amy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 988

 
Were the cockpit controls designed for use by either a right- or left-handed person? Were there any modifications needed to be made to accomodate which hand the pilots were dominant with? Where were the throttle/magneto on/off switch usually located in scouting/fighter aircraft?

Also, from what I have read and seen pictures of, most fighter aircraft (post 1916) fired their guns from a switch on the control stick. Seems as though there was a story about the Fokker Dr1 development in which Fokker had put a lever or some sort to fire the guns but MvR demanded a switch. He said he wanted it like a trigger. Anyway, in the movie "The Blue Max," the pilots of the German aircraft are always pulling a lever outside the cockpit to fire the guns. Any truth to the Fokker Dr1 development story? How did most of the aircrafts fire their guns?

Thanks.
__________________
The most valuable of all talents is that of never using two words when one will do.
-- Thomas Jefferson

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. -- Ronald Reagan
Amy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Old 29 December 1999, 10:32 AM   #2
John L
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

There is an interesting chapter in "War Birds" by Elliott White Springs where John Grider (the Unknown Aviator of the book's sub-title} has his mechanics revamp his cockpit in his SE-5a. He tells of replacing the stick with the stick from a Camel, from which he can fire both guns via a bowden cable setup. Some levers looked like an old fashioned emergency brake handle and others activated the bowden cable (like a choke cable) through a simple rotating lever like the ones shown in Blue Max.
I dunno about the DR-I. I never landed on that side of the lines.
 
Old 29 December 1999, 10:46 AM   #3
PeterL
Forum Ace
 
PeterL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Stockport UK

 
Amy, the Germans seem to have adopted a standard fighter control column quite early on, an example of which is beautifully illustrated on the opening page of Charles Goss's new site. Although it depicts a column taken from an Albatros the Dr1 had the identical fitment. Note that it is designed for two hands, as was the standard Sopwith stick and that fitted to the SE, though neither was as sophisticated as the German product.

hth

Peter L
__________________
cheers

Peter L
PeterL is offline  
Old 29 December 1999, 03:18 PM   #4
Ed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

The method of firing the machine guns by pulling a lever on the gun itself was a bit of "artistic licence" on the part of movie-makers, beginning with "The Dawn Patrol" I think. Reality is that the guns were fired from the control column; problem is that if you film this from outside the cockpit you don't see anything happening. So Hollywood decided that having the pilot pull on a lever would at least make it LOOK interesting...

The only pulling on the gun involved charging the first round with the loading lever or using it to try to clear a jam.
 
Old 29 December 1999, 06:11 PM   #5
Mark P.
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Amy,

I can't tell you whether MvR had Fokker install the extra firing lever but the Dr1 had three firing levers. It had two push levers that fired the guns left or right independently. Then they added also a pull lever that fired the guns together. This was more like a trigger.
Just a extra note, MvR had his kill button moved from it's standard location in the middle to his right hand side of the stick.
Also if anyone is interested I have a very good blueprint of the stick from the Dr1.

Mark
 
Old 30 December 1999, 03:48 AM   #6
Brad
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Brad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
Posts: 3,240

 
Hi Amy

I have seen the sticks in several planes the most interesting is the DR1 it has really two handles on the top side by side. this one has two throttles one on the left side of the cockpit wall and one on the stick as the engine isn't original in this one I can't say for sure that it belongs there, But attention to detail on this plane is very good. The guns are right where you would normally expect the instrument panal and could be easily serviced or fired manually. the compass is mounted by your right knee. Frank Talman did not like these big handles on the stick claiming the banged his knees in manouvers. His book has several cockpit pic's.

The Se5 has two flat pushbuttons in a ring on top of the stick which can be fired independently or together with one thumb. The top gun can be brought back on a track and serviced but I doubt that one could reach the lower gun at all.

On the Neiuport 28 the guns are on the left side of the fusalage and easily reached from the cockpit there is a big lever there that I believe is only for charging. This replica is not so good that I would believe the details hope this helped VBR Brad
__________________
Brad

No war for environmentalists! Drill here!

"My point is that KILLING BABIES ON PURPOSE IS NEVER OKAY. " - Craig

"Not even before they are born! " - ME

"Is nailing Jell-O to the wall productive?" - Barker
Brad is offline  
Old 30 December 1999, 07:53 AM   #7
John L
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Some vintage books refer to "Dep" control columns and "Joysticks." I know that Dep (and double dep)comes from the Deperdussin (sp?)and consists of a column with a wheel (or 2 in tandem), but where did the term "joystick" originate?
 
Old 30 December 1999, 10:59 AM   #8
mike_baram
Rest in Peace
 
mike_baram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: One of the sunny states.
Posts: 2,077

 
where did the term "joystick" originate?
John,
Errr.....well.....ahem!
Here goes. <Will the ladies please leave the room for a second? Thanks.>
The position of the joystick....a control column positioned between the pilot's knees, gripped (usually) with the right hand....the phallic implications are obvious.
Hope this helps without getting in trouble with the guardians of public decency.
Mike
__________________
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci
mike_baram is offline  
Old 30 December 1999, 02:42 PM   #9
Darryl
Forum Ace
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 948

 
Hi Amy,

The Fokker Eindekker had mixture controls etc on the left.

Avro 504 had all engine controls on the left cockpit wall.

The Sopwith Pup had all engine controls, except the fuel preasure hand pump and ignition 'blip', on the left. The pp was on the right. It had the ignition 'blip' switch on the column.

The Camel had mixture levers etc on the left wall, mags on the left of the panel, 'blip' on the column, fuel preasure hand pump on the right of the cockpit floor next to the seat.

The SPAD XIII seems to have had a similar arrangement to the Sopwith Pup.

The Bristol Fighter had engine control levers on the left, fuel switches on right of panel. Radiator shutters on right cocpit wall below the fuel preasure hand pump, Mags on right of panel under fuel selectors etc.

Through to the thirties this type of arrangement seems to have been almost universal. My guess would be that as many of these aircraft required fine fuel adjustments at critical times during takeoff and they were not 'trim and forget' aircraft, it was deemed prudent to have a strong right hand on the control column!!

This is pure guess work on my part but remember that at that time children who tended towards being left handed were still being beaten for it and forced to change!

best regards

Darryl
Darryl is offline  
Old 30 December 1999, 05:50 PM   #10
cam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a

Tese are two pictures of a Bristol Fighter instrument panel on display at the Planes of Fame Museum, Valle, AZ.

There are two pics, unfortunately Xoom wont let me link to them directly, but if you scroll down to the "Planes of Fame Air Museum - Grand Canyon, Arizona" section, they are the Biff007 and Biff008 photographs on the WWI Museum Aircraft Website.

The large centre slot at the top is where the rear part of the gun pokes through. The top of the panel doesnt reach to the top of the fuselage either, plenty of heat from the engine must have drafted through. The Valle museum also had a replica Bristol Fighter there.

cam
 
 

Bookmarks

Tags
cockpit


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Actual turnbuckle designs - where to find? rfield Aircraft 4 21 December 2006 03:03 AM
Fokker D.VII Paint Designs + pilots ww1skies Aircraft 13 21 June 2004 12:47 AM
propeller designs JASTA75 Aircraft 7 11 March 2002 06:44 AM
RAF airfoil designs Ed 2001 1 2 July 2001 05:27 AM
Airfoil designs of the Great War Tony 2001 4 30 June 2001 06:56 PM


As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1997 - 2023 The Aerodrome